Love "Benemy", lol

I think it could be miles, yeah maybe we havent seen him until now but he short and no one really likes him!

I thiink its Michel bcause all the 815ers hate him anyway and he does not want to help them by keeping the secret-funeral was in a black neighborhood

One of things that fascinates me, is that Locke's faith is represented by the use of his legs. The ultimate and final loss of faith would also be the loss of his legs. We have seen and heard of other amputations, Dr. Candle and one of Rousseau's team. What if it is a John Locke who has completely lost hope, faith, his legs, and his life? At least, it would explain the short coffin.

Re: the short coffin:

I thought this was explained by TPTB as the result of a lense that was used in filming, rather than an actual small coffin. If this sounds familiar to anyone and you can recall where this info was divulged, please reply with the link if you can!

UKLostIt--But Darlton said it was someone we have already met, and Miles didn't show up until Season 4.

Dan-Michael could still fit. I tend to hesitate on the 'black neighborhood' idea. There are many neighborhoods, at least in the states, whose demographics could be misconstrued depending upon what time of day you visited them. For example, if you went to most suburbs midday on a weekday, you'd think it was all single moms, wouldn't you? You'd have a very different impression on evenings and weekends. Anyone who has shopped for a home or apartment can tell you the same...

All I care about is this:

It's not Ben.

Anyone else is a bonus, because....it's not Ben.

I love that banner in the sponsor window is for Emergency! episodes on NBC.com. It's funny to see Kevin Tighe --Pops Locke-- look so....young.

Ok, here's my spoiler free 2 cents worth...lol

We know these to be additional facts to what was listed in the initial post:

* The coffin occupant is male. We see this in TTLG when Jack views the Obit. (Tivo is awesome)

* The coffin occupant has a teenage son. Same source...the Obit Jack reads.

* The coffin was of a standard size as per Pod cast. (ie..78" to 81" in length) (This can be verified by guesstimating using either Jack's hand or the tiles as a reference.)

* Future Bearded Jack denies knowing the occupant as a 'Friend or Family' when asked by funeral director. He obviously 'Knows' the person, just not as a friend or family.

With all of the facts examined, it seems to me that the occupant could be any number of male Losties or Others. The fact that Jack and Kate both have their own ways of denying the occupant can mean a lot of things in light of the secret they are obviously keeping. This may be viewed by both Jack and Kate as a violation of their oath to the secret. Kate just happens to be having an easier time lying than Jack does.

For example, when Kate says, "Why would 'I' go to the funeral?", does this mean she hates the occupant or is she implying it would prove she knew the person and thereby 'spill the beans' of the secret? Same goes with Jack's denial of the occupant being a friend or family.

If it was a known O6 member, it seems a Tabloid or newspaper would have sent somebody at the very least.

If it was Michael as some speculate, why would Walt not show up? That makes no sense to me.

I suppose we will have to wait and watch to know for sure.

Henry Holland: What makes you say it's not Ben in the coffin? I thought the end of "The Economist" episode only reinforces the possibility that it could be Ben...establishing that he has off-island whereabouts in the future.

It makes sense to me that Jack would be so depressed about his loss because he would have been the most likely person to be able to get Jack back to the island and give him some peace.

As for the obit reading someone else's name (I think John Lantham is what I've read from some old posts)...well we now do know that Ben has many, many aliases...so it could simply be his alias.

Locke108: Are you sure about that teenage son bit? I thought I had read every post I could find on the possible translation of the entire obit and don't remember seeing anything about a teenage son.

Here's a link to the obit screen cap. I'd love it if you had a better capture.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RlUe-1YihSI/AAAAAAAAFkw/ucINFuG1jfo/s1600-h/newspaperclipping2.jpg

ok ErasedSlate what you just said made no sense, people who have no legs wouldn't get a shorter coffin because it would make them look insulting (do you think they sleep in shorter beds to), my uncle had no legs and when i went to his funeral he had a normal ordinary sized coffin cuz to give him a shorter one would have made it look odd.

Just had another thought:

As I re-read what I can of the obit clip...I see something about a beam in the loft apartment...

Does anyone remember if we've confirmed how the Man in the Coffin died? Was it by hanging? Was it classified as a suicide?

I don't think Ben is the type to commit suicide, so let me offer two possible explanations:

1. Ben - aka - John Lantham - faked his own death (why and how I leave up to your imagination).

2. Someone else (Abbaddon, maybe?) killed Ben - aka - John Lantham - and made it look like a suicide (why - I again leave up to your imagination).

The person in the coffin can't be one of the Oceanic Six. The Oceanic Six were media celebrities. If one of them had died, someone would have come to the funeral, not just Jack.

My theory: The man in the coffin was Ben...but he faked his death.

Futher...

It seems as though the flashforwards in "The Economist" were taking place futher in the future than the flashforwards for "Through the Looking Glass". That's why I don't think it would be Ben with Ben actually being dead.

It's Michael. Someone promised him that they would let him see his son if he spilled the beans. WAAAALLLLLTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

(didnt read any of the comments)
Couldnt it be someone who wasnt on the plane, ie someone of the Others who made it off the Island?
Maybe Juliet?

Locke108, you are right that an O6'r would have generated some press. Good point there!

And I do agree with LockeFan that what we were able to read of the newspaper obit made it seem as though the deceased both hung himself and had a teenaged son.

I haven't yet seen anything that would rule out Ben.

Curious as to why you feel the FF in The Economist took place later than the FF is TTLG S.A. Bonsai? Can you share?

I agree that it can't be one of the O6 because of their psuedo-celebrity status. So I think it must be someone else from the island, one of the Others. Seeing Ben off the island does make it seem like it might be him.

Question.
Were there no other guests to the funeral? Or was Jack just really early or really late? If so, doesn't this hold some significance, too? Because the Others most likely didn't really have any family or friends in America since they had been on the island for so long. It seems like even if it had been Michael, and he had not for some reason been included in the O6, then at least someone would have come, right?

KeepingAwake,

In "Through the Looking Glass", Jack was identified as a hero in the drug store, which I'm assuming refers to his O-6 status. In "The Economist", both the guy on the golf course and Elsa think Sayid looks familiar, but neither immediately places him as one of the Oceanic Six. This gives me the impression that the Oceanic Six had had their fifteen minutes of fame and the media attention had finally started wear off. Further, it was pointed out to me that Sayid's beard in just starting to go grey in "The Economist". Also, beepers are identified as outdated technology in "The Economist".

It's all circustantial, of course, but I got the distinct impression that the flashforward for "The Economist" took place after the flashforward for "Through the Looking Glass".

I'd guess it's Vincent the dog. Why can't it be a doggy funeral? Maybe Michael and Vincent never made it back to civilization but Vincent did. Many people will all their possessions to animals after they kick the bucket. Kate might be incredulous as to why she would go to a doggy funeral. Perhaps Vincent is possessed by some spirit from the island, oh, let's say someone like Jacob. The dog is key here folks. Otherwise why would Jacob's cottage have a large painting of a dog? Why would Ben have dogs in cages in the flash forward? And who is the narrator we have heard at times on review shows? It must be Vincent. Yes, the story of LOST and what happened to flight 815 as told by dog with or without spirit (black smoke?) possession!

Moss and Another Other, yes, I do think it could be an Island inhabitant who wasn't on Oceanic 815, as I had said in the original post. Or even an Oceanic 815 passenger who wouldn't take the settlement and therefore is avoiding the attendant publicity that the O6 have received.

If the newspaper obit is to be believed, then the deceased is male and had a teenaged son.

Another Other, the funeral director said to Jack that he was the only one to have appeared at all.

S.A.-- It seems as though the people who recognized Jack as a 'hero' in the pharmacy were referring to his saving the woman and son from their car accident on his suicide bridge. Although I suppose the pharmacy patron could have been referring to the O6 status as well, or both incidents. Still not getting how your notes help us to conclusively build the 'future' timeline of the flashes though. Still seem open to me.

hey people, i love lost and would love to talk about it, there is only one prob, my eng sucks,
i think the person is the coffin is someone already known, it could be said, because he is kind of alking the dark path, with the killing and all, or maybe ben, since jack was the only one that passedby, kate wouldn't come to the funeral, because she knows about the things said had done. or if it's ben well because she hates him.

In TTLG when jack first met the doctor taking care of the lady he saved I remember him saying something to jack like "it's the hero...twice over" Which could refer to Jack having saved the life of the woman and her child or it could mean that AND the Oceanic Six event. Obviously we don't know the fake story trumped up about the Oceanic Six and whether or not Jack was made out to be this hero who risked all to save the lives of five other people.

I think the fellow in the coffin has to be someone who knew how to get back to the island, Jack said to Kate that every time he gets on a plane he hopes it crashes so he could get back to the island and earlier in the episode he was drawing all over maps of the pacific (or just world maps) obviously trying to figure out where the island is. It seems to me that the thing that would finally send him over the edge would be the death of someone who knew how to get to the island. I'm sure that seems like an obvious statement but it does narrow down the possibilities a bit. Michael, Ben, Richard?

(Spoiler Alert)It's the smoke monster.

Henry Holland: What makes you say it's not Ben in the coffin? I thought the end of "The Economist" episode only reinforces the possibility that it could be Ben...establishing that he has off-island whereabouts in the future

It gets tricky with the timeline in the flashforwards, but since Sayid alluded to the fact that he'd killed other people for Ben:

BEN: Why are you crying? Because it hurts? Or because you were stupid enough to care for her? These people don’t deserve our sympathies. Need I remind you the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?
SAYID: You used that to recruit me into killing for you.

it makes sense that a bit of time has elapsed since the Oceanic Six got back. Obviously, as a huge Ben fan --he's by far my favorite character-- all I care about really at this point is

a) he got off the Island after whatever happened that has the Oceanic Six so freaked
b) he had no bruises on his face, his glasses were very stylish and he looked fantastic in that gray shirt and vest

so, if he makes it to the very last Boom > LOST > credits in 2010, that's a bonus for me, I thought he was going to die on the Island.

And I do agree with LockeFan that what we were able to read of the newspaper obit made it seem as though the deceased both hung himself and had a teenaged son

Wasn't he mentioned as being an artist too? Or was I dreaming that or was that reference removed, because that would make it too obvious it was Michael? Kate certainly had reason enough already to shun his funeral: I don't think she was very forgiving of being left on the Pala Ferry dock and getting a clothsack put over her head.

Oh, and Elsa's boss, the one that funded her shopping and cafe lunches? Thomas Mittlewerk, of course!

POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT!!! (Just so I don't have to hear from any whiny people out there...)

Ok, well, perusing the screencap again - and multiple views this time:

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2007/05/newspaper-through-looking-glass.html

I STILL do not see where the text in the obit talks about the person who died being survived by a teenage son.

However, I do see a lot of fanfare about an "alleged" full translation of the obituary - on lots of different boards - just one of which can be found here:

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36681

I do NOT know if this post is accurate or not...I have yet to see proof in the pudding...all the screencaps of the obit are either incomplete or too blurry and even combining bits and pieces of different captures...I don't see definitive text that says the man who died was survived by a teenage son.

If this source is correct (I refuse to rule it out until I can read a better copy of the obit), then yes I'll buy that the guy in coffin could be Michael....there are enough matching points to draw that conclusion - Walt would be a teenager by a few years later, Michael was from New York, Michael, as an artist/architect would believably be living in a loft, Michael was (potentially) an avenue for Jack to get back to the island (he knew the bearing!), Kate would have been pissed at him for a) giving up Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley to The Others or b) god knows what else we'll see Michael do in any appearances he'll have this season.

However, until I someone can show me a decent screencap saying that he was survived by a teenage son, I'm sticking to my guns that it's Ben in the coffin.

Maybe the alleged translation including the portion about the teenage son was a red herring purposefully placed to throw us all off course. I wouldn't put anything past anyone at this point. I'm suspicious of more conspiracy theories than a season of the X-Files.

PS - Maybe the text is there in the obit and I'm just too blind to see. My wife accuses me of not being able to find food in the fridge all the time...so please tell me if I'm blind and just put my hand directly on the roast beef!

I'm betting on Bernard. -something bad happens to Rose...he blames everyone else...somehow creating a problem or further tension among the divided 815 survivors. When returning home, he freaks out...loses all faith in life. His funeral could very well be in a more racially diverse neighborhood...due to some insurance policy or prearranged plans of Rose's. He could have a teenage son that we are unaware of. "And now for something completely different."

If its not someone from the island that wasn't a passenger, then it does make sense that it could be Michael.

If he and Walt somehow got back to America they would probably just change their names or make up some false identities to avoid questions about the crash. Thats why no one would go to his funeral.

It would also explain why the O6, or at least Jack, would be upset at him. Because he selfishly got off the island then recreated his life and knows how to get back to the island but won't tell anyone.

So, to me its a toss-up between Michael and Ben. Because obviously there is way more to Ben's life than we know.

One thing that stands out to me in particular that is mentioned in the "obit" or whatever you want to call it(assuming that it is a legit translation,or close to it)is that the doorman reported hearing loud noises coming from the loft, thus leading to him finding the body. If "Jonathan" had hung himself from a beam, and was still hanging when found, how much noise would that actually make? Other than perhaps a chair or box or something being kicked over, what would make so much noise that would alert the doorman and make him concerned about the safety of the other tenants? Seems odd to me, and makes me feel that perhaps it was a murder made to look like a suicide.
Sorry if this is something that has already been pointed out and discussed, although I haven't seen it anywhere else.

I don't think it's Ben. I know the timelines get confusing, but as soon as I saw him talking to Hitman Sayid, I felt like I had just discovered *how* Jack and Kate (and/or whomever else) will inevitably get back to the island. Ben!

Wouldn't that be fitting, story-wise?

I can just see Future Jack all miserable and regretful and begging Ben to get him back on the island, after he was so determined to leave.

Full circle.

lockefan3805, you've just reinforced my belief that it's Mikey. 'He knew the bearing.' I never even thought of that. Jack would believe he was his only possible link back to the island, and he would also be distraught at the continuing hell that future off island life brings. I believe it's not so bad for Kate as she has sort of sold her soul to the mysterious "he" who I now think is the bracelet giving R.G. (or at least a man on the opposing side of Ben).

buffy, speaking of which, I believe you are correct in your theory that last weeks cliffhanger may very well be Jack's way back. What if in season 5 as Jack is retreating from his funeral visit he runs into the talented Mr. Linus, as Ben (knowing Jack would show) follows him from the funeral. Another possibility here is that Sayid would intercept Jack to let him know that he (Sayid) knows someone very well who could lead them back...

why cant it be sawyer in the casket? He could definitly have done something to piss both jack and kate off. Also he could be a person who would not take a settlement from oceanic, and therefore not be an oceanic 6.

I believe it is Ben in the coffin and I've thought this since seeing the season finale. Then, in the Economist we see that Ben did indeed get off (or perhaps he can come and go as he pleases...or at least he could at one time). It is my belief that its Ben and Jack is upset because he thought Ben was the only one who could get him back to the island but could he? We've seen the passports and we've seen him off-island in the future having Sayid kill for him. If he could get back to the island wouldn't he be there? Maybe he can but he won't as long as these people he's trying to kill off have taken control. Other possibilities are Michael or Sayid but I do believe its Ben. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Didn't Cuse or Lindelof say at one point, that the article were to be changed in the future. That it weren't to be taken literally?

I can just see Future Jack all miserable and regretful and begging Ben to get him back on the island, after he was so determined to leave.

Ben voice: Well, Jack, the tables certainly have turned, haven't they?
/Ben voice

I love that theory. But *can* Ben get them back, or is he stuck in "the real world" too? I also like the little hints thrown out in these two bits:

MATTHEW: Are they still alive?
HURLEY: (Pauses) What?
MATTHEW: You heard me.

Is Matthew talking about Daniel, Charlotte and Miles (and Frank, if he comes back again) or does that include the Lostaways too?

SAYID: You used that to recruit me into killing for you.
BEN: Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid?

Is Sayid protecting Jack, Kate, Hugo and 2 other Ocean Six people?

Season 4 has been awesome so far.

This theory is based on the fact that either the facts in the obit aren't true or that we were not meant to use are tivo's and other devices to try and read the obit. My theory is that the person in the coffin is Hurley. Hurley leaves the island and is haunted by something that happened on the island that he feels responsilbe for and this is the reason that he is driven to enroll in the mental hospital. We've seen how Hurley can be comprimised in the last episode when he lies to Sayid and Kate. A move that dosen't typically fit with the most beloved Lostie. Also from the coversation he has with Jack he winds up regretting his decision to go with Locke. The why he regrets this move is still to be determined. We have seen before that guilt, whether self-inflicted or not, can drive Hurley to the pysch-ward. When Jack visits Hurley in the hospital he doesn't agree with Hurley that they should go back to the island. When we see Jack in "Through the Looking Glass" he has obviously changed his mind. Hurley is someone that up until he went with Locke looked towards Jack for guidance. Jack feels guilty for not believing Hurley and in this sense feels like he is responsible for the death of Hurley, because we all know Jack does not deal well with failure. For this reason Jack is almost driven to jump off a bridge when he reads the news of Hurley's death. The reason that no one was at the funeral is because when Hurley returns to civilization he is still inflicted with the curse and all of his family have perished. Kate blames Hurley for something that happens on the island and there for is not willing to forgive him in death and go to his funeral. If it were Ben or Michael it would have been obvious why she chose to not go to the funeral and wouldn't even had been a need to ask Kate if she was going or why she didn't go, but the way Jack asked makes me believe that Jack thought that she would go. Either that or Hurley reveals the secret that is being kept and Kate blames him for that. Either way the guilt finally gets to Hurley and he chooses to end his life or it is made to appear that way.

There were definitely hints in the Hurley flashforward that placed it probably before the beardy Jack flashforward. But I don't think there were any things in the Sayid flashforward that gave time cues. Meaning there were three different slots in the timeline it could have happened. Was there a time cue I missed? I suspect people are mentally giving it a sequence just based on hunches.

I really doubt the coffin had Michael in it since Walt surely would have attended (unless Walt ends up dying first).

If the person in the coffin was someone who had taken on a pseudonym, how would Jack even know who it was?

Andresen, I seem to recall hearing that the newspaper story would be changed later on as well, but I can't recall where I heard it. Nonetheless, I left the information from the newspaper clipping out of my 'What We Know' because it seems as though that information may change. Glad I'm not the only one who thought they heard that it may change!

lockefan and cap10tripps, I had a long discussion about Lost last night with my brother, and he reminded me of the wonky compass that Sayid was using. I don't recall the specific episode, but at one point Sayid is using a compass that was given to him by Locke because it wasn't working correctly. (If I am misremembering this, please jump in and correct me! )

So, if compasses work differently on the Island, then the bearing that Ben told Michael to follow would not be so easy to follow in an effort to return to the Island, since 325 on the Island would appear to be somewhat 'off' of a 325 compass bearing elsewhere.

Whether that would change Jack's perception that Michael could help him to find his return to the Island is debatable, however. Jack would have to realize that compass readings on the Island were off, or remember that they are.

Erased Slate-- I am with you on the physical manifestations of faith or lack thereof. It's obvious in the storylines of Locke, Ben and Rose, and perhaps other Islanders.

You should make a new post on this line of thought! It would be extremely interesting and very hotly debated/discussed! Can't wait to see it!

Eric Larson: Well though. Hurley could have done something that lead to Sawyers death which then resulted in Kate turning away from Hurley - and that way we'd have Sawyer as our well-known character dying soon!

KeepingAwake_ I believe the compass didn't work, because of the electro-magnetic current that was projected from the Swan Station. I believe the hatch implodes at the same time that Michael and Walt set sail. Which would mean that the compass could return to it's true north. I may be wrong though.

ErasedSlate_ I think that there is a lot to say about the faith aspect of Locke. My only question is Locke losses feeling in his legs on the island when Boone and him are looking for Yemi's plane. This appears to be at a time when John has a lot of faith at least in the island. The only time I have seen Locke lose faith on the island is when he wanted to stop pressing the button. This is interesting, because Locke is a man that in the "real" world, but his faith into a lot of things that didn't end up well for him (i.e. his mom, his dad,the a.t.f. agent, etc.) Only this time his faith is semi-rewarded the button does indeed need to be pushed to stop some sort of impending doom. This act renews John's faith in the island, so far it is the only thing in his life that has not let him down. All the past events in Lockes life had left him a bitter, angry man before he got to the island. the Others sense this bitterness and as a test have him kill his father, and in a sense kill off that part of his life that left him faithless. My only question is will Lockes faith of the island be rewarded or will it again be his downfall? I guess we will have to wait and see.

Don't know who's in the coffin, but does anyone think that whoever it is, maybe Sayid is the one who killed them?

Excellent pint on how the Swan implosion may have affected the compass.

And briguyx, I am loving this theory that Sayid may have killed the guy in the coffin! *head asplodes*

I think Michael is in the coffin, and here's a wacky theory to consider:

* Ben has a "man" on the freighter spying for him. Is it unreasonable to think that Michael and Walt didn't make it very far off of the island, or wound up picked up by the freighter? I think Michael is the spy. At some point, I think we'll see Michael continue his erratic ways regarding his fellow crash survivors, and the fallout from it further isolates Michael from the survivors. Then something happens to Walt, leading to a distraught Michael's suicide.

* BTW, I think more than six survivors leave the island. These six take the settlement and publicity. But the others either change identities or swear themselves to silence. Although the initial clips suggest tonight's episode will focus on a FF for Kate and the publicity surrounding her return, I'm actually suspicious about whether she's one of the official "Oceanic 6," given her criminal past.

hi there - this is my first time reading this forum. keep it up. it's great! oh, and english isn't my native language, so excuse any grammar/spelling mistake!

I haven't read any transcription of the obit. Just seen the usual caps.

here go my 2 cents: THE MAN IN THE COFFIN IS MICHAEL.

I believe that part of the deal that Ben made with Michael involved re-inserting Michael into society WITH A DIFFERENT NAME (John Lantham), a completely new identity (that's why no one showed up in his funeral), and the keeping the existence of the island, its inhabitants and the survivors of the oceanic, a secret that NO ONE SHOULD KNOW.

It's likely that once the "Oceanic 6" came to the real world, Michael had trouble keeping his mouth shut - especially while watching this 6 survivors being awarded with such wealthy compensations. And because of that I BELIEVE THAT BEN SENT SAYID TO SILENCE (IN A DFINITIVE WAY) MICHAEL.

Or maybe Ben failed to keep his part of the deal, that is, letting WALT OFF THE ISLAND... so as soon as Jack came back to the real world, MICHAEL contacted him and/or tried to start a scandal about the accident, so BEN HAD SAYID BRING HIM DOWN FOR REAL THIS TIME.
That would also explain why Jack actually knew of Michael's death if Michael had a different name...

(now i'm asking myself: how is that this John Lantham died? was he found dead somewhere? supposedly suicide? was he murdered?)

The obit reads New York, and teenage son. There's also the fact that the funeral was held in a black neigbourhood. I do not live in the states (I'm Argentinean, just as Adolfo Bioy Casares, the writer of La Invención de Morel ;) - just been to the US east coast as a tourist a few years ago... anyway, i believe it should be taken into account. I say: if it weren't relevant, the funeral could have been held in a chinese neighbourhood, in an arab neighbourhood, in a latino neighbourhood... almost ANYWHERE. BUT NOT. IT WAS HELD IN A BLACK NEIGHBOURHOOD. There MUST be a reason for that.

ALSO: I DOUBT VERY MUCH THAT BEN'S SPY ON THE FREIGHTER IS MICHAEL.

ps: where can i post my ideas on the spy???

THE OTHERS KNOW WE TIVO!!!!!there is no doubt to me there is TWO dead.Micheal is the one from the clipping and someone else is in the coffin.Does Jack say on the bridge"they all leave me"??Everyone is falling apart except Kate.She is doing better,goin on with her life.Remember also Walt is a Locke fan.And a very special boy,that appears alot where he shouldn't!Daddy may take him home but Walt does what he wants.I suspect know one really dies thats why we see them again,there selves,there spirits in animals.This island enables the dead to communicate in specail ways.Any ideas on the connection with drugs found in the boys room?