Yeah, I was definitely starting to get that feeling. Sawyer backs off soon after, but dammit, no means no.

I thought it was a little creepy at first, but after he backed off and kinda joked around with the whole, "How could you resist that 'I'll protect you' speech" thing, I felt like he'd just been joking around. He and Kate know each other and are comfortable with each other and a lot of times when people get comfortable with each other, depending on their relationship and what they're each ok with, that kind of joking isn't crossing the line. He apparently couldn't tell how serious she was right away.

I didn't like the scene at all, thank God Sawyer backed off becuase it looked really bad. Also I didn't like that Kate slapped him, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, should get physical in a relationship. I hated how this episode was written.

I was just really disturbed by the image of her squirming away and him pinning her hands down. And it stayed with me for a while. It certainly wasn't an accident - they focused on her hands very closely. I just really felt like I needed to bleach my brain after that scene - and I can't frankly imagine finding anything romantic about it. I don't think Sawyer would ever really force himself on Kate, but I do wonder what the writers intention was with showing that.

Speaking directly on the slap/punch Kate gives Sawyer, it's not the first time she's hit him. She did it in season one, after he manipulated her to kiss him. Of course, they're in a relationship now, but the act in this episode didn't shock me. It seemed appropriate she hit him (in terms of the character on the show).

As for Sawyer's behavior moments before that hit, I gotta say, my friends and I never noticed. But, now that you all bring it up, I sorta agree. What were the writers/director thinking?

Oh common you guys. I think your looking into this much more than you should. Do you honestly think he's gonna rape her or something? Plus, who knows, she may of liked being held down when they were "doin it" the night before.

shmy,

I felt the same way about the slap. Not just the "non-consensual violence in a relationship = not cool" but the subtext of the scene. Sawyer calls Kate out on her shit, Kate slaps him, and I felt like the show was telling me I was supposed to sympthize with Kate and her slapping. Which...I didn't. Setting aside for a moment the "non-consensual violence in a relationship = not cool" bit, there's a different context between being manipulated into a kiss and being honestly (if rudely) called out for one's actions.

sarah,

"What were the writers/director thinking?"

I was asking that question about several parts of "Eggtown". The scene the OP discusses, the slap, Kate being upset that she wasn't pregnant with a pregnancy that would KILL HER, the fact that Kate gets hit the plotline of "She was all right for motherhood after all! Silly woman for thinking otherwise!" 'Twas not my favorite episode, truly.

Come on now. That is a pretty normal vanilla activity in most people's repertoire. Sawyer definitely has Kate's number sexually - whatever he's doing, she's totally into it. He held her hands down in the cagesex scene too. I was more upset that she hit him than that he held her one hand down. One was playful, the other was violent.

Wow. Ummm.... I think you need to lighten up a bit? If this kind of thing is what jumps out at you and makes you angry maybe you should just stick to watching "the "L" word"? Seems like you're all fine with Kate hitting Saywer though.... grow up and realize what life is yo. p.s. Kate came to Sawyer's cabin. Some of you are really crazy to even make it an issue. If something happend to you in the past, I'm sorry. But get professional help so you don't obsess about television shows. I can't believe this is even a thread on this site.

i thought it was a hot scene... but more seriously and more to the point, i agree with pocket about the kind of sexual chemistry kate and sawyer have. plus, it evokes the sort of interesting psychological depths of kate that initially came out in the episode "what kate did" when wayne's spirit inhabited sawyer's unconscious body... you have to remember that the sawyer-kate affair has a lot of kate's personal struggle with being "good" and being inherently "bad" tied up inside of it.... the writers know what they are doing -- they are not creating simple characters but ones with psychological depths that the writers are willing to venture into to make us perhaps slightly uncomfortable for the sake of exploring some really cool uncharted psychological territory. i think it pushed all the right buttons, especially as evidenced by the reaction its getting. there is a lot more going on with the kate-sawyer-jack love triangle than just a soap opera -- it's about the unconscious decisions we all make about ourselves that influence our life choices and relationship choices and emotional attachments. a similar thing is happening with jin and sun -- sun's emotional baggage from her childhood is being played out in her relationship to her husband, and vice versa.... the writers absolutely know what they are doing with these scenes. trust them, everyone. trust that the reaction you are having is probably because they are pushing volatile buttons in the subconscious that dictate our norms about sexuality, love, and forgiveness. it's brilliant!!!

If you don't like the topic of a thread, there is nothing making you read it. Why shouldn't we be able to discuss all and any aspect of Lost? I have read the same thread comments as you, and there are not any irrational, irate comments. People are expressing their discomfort and curiosity about a plot point. A plot point, which reflects a major problem in our society. And your suggestion that we not talk about this, is only adding to the silence that goes along with real sexual violence. And in fact...not everyone in this thread is "fine" with Kate hitting Sawyer.

Lost, as a show, has brought to the forefront many topics in philosophy, science, and society. Whatever the reason on the part of the writers behind this narrative decision, I think KeepingAwake made a good choice to bring this topic to attention. Again, Lost can be the spark of a discussion.

OP,

Pajiba felt the same way you did about the scene.

http://www.pajiba.com/lost-eggtown.htm

General,

It's called CONSENT, ya'll. There's a difference between holding someone's hands down during sex if they're okay with it and if they're not.

Devin,

It's definitely plausible that Sawyer simply didn't realize that Kate was serious right away, which is in itself disquiting. Double check, get confirmation, better safe than sorry, ya know? At least, you'd think.

Something to think about is that we've seen Sawyer act similar before. He pinned down Ana Lucia in "Two For the Road" and many of his fights with Kate in the first season ended up with one of them on the top of the other, which Sawyer always sexualized. There's a distinct dominance at play there, but as "Two For the Road" showed, Sawyer always drew a line unless the woman clearly demonstrated an interest in sex. Which, really, is an imperfect manner in which to establish consent. Which goes back to "Eggtown", missed cues, and why it would be nice if television had more sex scenes proceeded by explicit consent. A good example, found in Lost, in fact, would be Shannon & Sayid in "Do No Harm". While there's no sex, I loved that Sayid assures her that while he has "hopes", he has no "expectations" and that he was very clear that if she wanted to go back, that was cool.

Seriously? People really need to get over themselves. Anybody being offended by this perfectly natural scene of a man begging a woman for sex that he's been involved before is actually bothersome in its own right. It's not like he actually forces himself on her or is rough with her in any way, shape or form. Sounds like you have issues yourself. What is this world coming to?

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wtf?

Seriously. Who cares?

Why is this on the main page again? This is a forum thread at best.

Oh, come on....No means yes.....

J/K.

But seriously, ladies; What would you expect from a scumbag type like Sawyer anyway? I know you all swoon over his long locks, bad ass 6 pack and bad boy attitude....but how easily you all forget what a scumbag character he really is. Let the scene be a reminder for those of you who lean toward favoring the bad boy over the nice guy out there, that you put yourself in that position when you go down that road...you know who you are!

Ok...there seem to be two issues here, so I'll deal with them each accordingly.

First of all there is the issue of whether or not Sawyer's behavior in this particular scene was appropriate (or perhaps more to the point whether it constitutes some form of sexual assault).

Second of all there is the issue of (hypothetically assuming Sawyer's behavior is inappropriate or is sexual assault) should this scene be in the episode.

As to the former, I don't think Sawyer is being inappropriate or that he is sexually assaulting Kate. The key isssue for me here is the context of his actions, that is within the context of Sawyer and Kate's relationship. Physical dominance in sexual relationships, though it certainly often falls under the category of unwanted or inappropriate behavior (sexual assault) is also sometimes simply a part of intimate relationships. Kate ans Sawyer have an estalished sexual history in which verbal consent is basically absent and sexual boundries are not clear. They also have a history of somewhat forcing themselves on each other (if I may remind you of the scene in season 3 when Kate comes into Sawyer's tent after having been blown off by Jack and basically forces herself on Sawyer). This is not to say that somebody partially holding somebody else down and being somewhat forcefull is always ok, just that in the context of certain relationships I think it reasonably falls within the norm of sexual behavior...moreover Sawyer did ultimately stop before actually doing anything that I think could clearly be considered assault. The key word her is CLEARLY, by the way, I'm not saying it isn't vague, but I think a lot of sexual behavior is ultimately vague and as I have said needs to be analyzed in the larger context and not just as a snapshot.

Either way, I don't partiuclarly have a problem with the discussion of whether or not Sawyer's actions were wrong...what I do have a problem with and find quite frankly ridiculous and absurd on its face is (in regards to the second issue) the notion that the scene should not be here because it is "offensive."

Let's say hypothetically that what Sawyer did is wrong and does constiute sexual assault. You have to remember that Sawyer is a character in a story, and characters sometimes do bad things in stories. The writers are not trying to send a good or a bad message with their storytelling...they are just telling a story. Should nothing bad ever happen in movies and tv just to avoid the "risk" of sending a negative message? Especially if you think what Sawyer is doing is wrong, don't you think the writers would be doing a diservice to thoughtful dialouge and the unfortunate reality of how things sometimes are by simply white-washing their dialouge and censoring their show with nothing but rosey idealistic depictions of sexual interactions? Should a move about genocide like Hotel Rwanda not depict acts of genocide and instead depict acts of kindness and brotherhood simply to avoid the risk of sending a negative message?

This conversation thread would not exist if the scene were depicted the way some of wanted, and yet look, here we are having a useful discussion about what kinds of sexual behavior is or is not appropriate.

Sorry for the long post.

Right on, Tron....

The writers are just telling the story...and perhaps it was even their intention to evoke some of this emotion in the viewers and foreshadow some events between Kate and Sawyer... The camera does do a close up on Sawyer's hand holding down Kate while you can hear her say no, rather than focus on them kissing. We've discovered that the writers and producers of this show do very little "without reason" - no matter how minute or insignificant it may seem at the time.

I agree with you 1000% on your comments and points regarding censorship...We're not watching Sesame Street here. One of the things that I've found so great about this show is how good the writing and acting have been - in that it is believable and so many times you can say to yourself..."...that's exactly how I'd feel," or "what I'd do," or, "what I'd say," in some of those real situations they depict.

There are some scenes out there that hit closer to home than others for all of us, in any media forum - whether it be a book, tv show or movie - that if, well written (and/or depicted)...can really evoke the emotions of the reader/viewer. And if so, then kudos to the writers/producers/actors.

I still maintain that this has been made an issue because people are forgetting about the type of character Sawyer is supposed to be...and just because he might have seemed a little soft recently...does not make him a nice guy. (Maybe he did get a little too much exposure in Room 23 - see the "What is Room 23 for" post by ErasedSlate and ensuing thread).

All this over-analysis aside, I'd like to say that I'm deeply offended by Kate's actions in this scene... Kate being the sexual initiator when they wake up in bed together, kissing on Sawyer and whatnot...then just pulling away and saying, "No" for no apparently good reason. She's deserves a good spanking.

Kate is tough (Do I need to remind you of the bank scene?). If SHE felt awkward and scared, she probably would have just head-butted him or something. The way she's been dicking Sawyer around for three seasons, I'm not surprised he wanted a little sugar, and she deserved that comment about bouncing back and forth. But the main point is, he backed off and NOTHING ACTUALLY HAPPENED! So try to focus on the real mysteries of the Island and not project your own hang-ups and baggage on a simple relationship scene.

Let's see if I have this right. Sawyer has committed multiple murders, scammed countless innocent people and is your all around scum of the earth. Kate is also a murderer, bank robber and a compulsive liar. And you're upset that these two characters are basically loutish to each other in bed and in life. Given they're backgrounds, what were you expecting from them? Those two are the losers of the world and that's how losers act.

Have you never seen couples act like this? Seriously? Maybe not with the hitting so much, but he probably thought she'd appreciate his being aggressive, and I know plenty of women who enjoy that sort of thing (being held down/restrained a bit, a tug of the hair, etc).
If they were trying to draw a rape analogy, there are far better (and more concise) ways to do it. I think it was more to contrast his way of treating her to Jack's... who would NEVER be that aggressive.
I too feel that it's a bit funny that we'll accept the fact that they've lied, stolen, and murdered, yet an aggressive move in bed is what sets off people's red flags.

I wish this all of "Eggtown" could be erased from my memory. More Jack/Kate drama? More Sawyer/Kate drama? Miles' big moment with Ben turning out to be an attempt at extortion? Yawn... And with the way the episode ran, who didn't realize as soon as Kate walked into the room at the end that her baby was really Aaron?

The only scenes worth saving from the entire episode were the Locke/Miles/grenade scene and the Daniel/Charlotte scene with the playing cards.

I think I was so bored with this episode by the time the scene in question came up that I didn't even notice what was going on. And even if I did, "ted. b" is right. We're talking about two people who have both committed murder to go along with several other crimes and you all are worried about some nasty comments and a slap.

Keeping Awake has had some great posts in the past....but this is by far the dumbest topic ever. This thread belongs over at The Tail Section.....lol Stick to theories K.A. You ain't Doctor Phil.

I think this is much ado about nothing. Tron really summed it up well.

I ended up coming away from the scene on Sawyer's side - he basically gets slapped because he calls a spade a spade. And it hurts Kate because it's true. My real objection to the scene is that the whole cat and mouse thing has gotten REALLY tiresome - Kate is in a position where she could choose either guy and they could get on with a relationship, but she just keeps playing games with both of them. At this point, if the show isn't ready for Kate to make up her mind, I'd rather have them just ignore the situation, it's the least interesting thing on the show right now.

I'm pretty sure that in the opening of the morning scene that kate is kissing sawyers chest and stuff, if that was me id go one step further and maybe flip her over... and crack on.

I hated the way they shot that scene. Sawyer didn't do anything wrong, but she whimpered and wiggled away for just a smidge too long.

I think we can all agree that Kate was perfectly happy having Sawyer restrain her a little in "I Do."

And for that matter, he was tied up for their extorted first kiss.

However, in this episode, that bondage "move," if you will, was clearly cast in a negative light and set off some kind of panic response in Kate.

I feel certain she wasn't concerned for her safety in ANY way, and he was just trying to get some (and quite rightfully so), but that scene still was The Ick.

For those wondering why this is on the main page...take a look at the heated discussion. Eggtown is the lowest received show of the season thus far and perhaps this has something to do with it.

I was a little uncomfortable with the scene at first but quickly became sympathetic toward Sawyer by the end of it. That scene was a microsm of the entire episode displaying how manipulative Kate can be until things are turned on her. She spent the night with Sawyer and nothing happened. Then he tries for some morning fun and she's resistant, he's persistent, borderline forceful, but backs off. Rember when Kate came into his tent after feeling spurned by Jack? Sawyer is feelling used. She admitted she wanted to use him to get to Miles, but she didn't admit she was using him for support. He calls her on it and gets slapped. That look of hurt could be read as, "Is that how you really see me," or "Is that how I really am." And this plays into the whole episode because by the end we're supposed to believe that Kate's motives are altruistic, but are they?

Now, on a side, some of you obviously were more upset by the scene than others. That's what you as the spectator brought to the exchange, not what the writer's were intending. Keep that in mind with every piece of media you intake. The communication is two way and you need to be asking yourself what it is you're briging to the exchange. Yes, Sawyer has taken a slightly darker turn since killing Anthony Cooper (shooting Tom Friendly in cold blood?), but that doesn't mean that the writer's were trying to pose Sawyer as a possible sexual deviant. As great as the writer's are, remember, this is the same episode where Claire seems to gotten over Charlie's death rather quickly...or until that becomes the focus of an upcoming episode.

Get out of here with your stupid raising of questions. This isn't Lifetime, it's ABC. If I were Doc I'd remove your position to post from here on out. Dumb bunt.

WTF? Sawyer was doing nothing wrong whatsoever... u need to relax a little bit.. Why was this on the main page for????

MerlboroMan -

This episode was poorly received because it was poorly done. It was a bore. Check out my post about five steps above yours.

To all -

I don't see why Lost got so carried away with the Kate/Jack/Sawyer thing in the first place.

Even at the beginning of the show, there was a much more interesting relationship between Sun and Jin, which was impacted for a bit when we thought something was going to happen between Sun and Michael. Then the Claire/Charlie relationship came up, then the forgettable Shannon/Sayid relationship, which was still better than K/J/S. And since then, here are some of the other relationships we've seen:

-Hurley/Libby - Awesome if only because you had to root for Hugo. Also great because of the mystery behind Libby. Are we ever going to learn anything more about her?

-Desmond/Penny - Hands down, the best relationship on the show. Do I even need to explain? I don't feel like it. Why don't you go back and watch the phone call scene from "The Constant"?

-Nikki/Paolo - Sorry I mentioned it...

-Jack/Sarah - She's been around a whole in his pre/post-island time. Their relationship was much more interesting what's been going on with Jack and Kate.

Alex, if anyone needs to banned for making an an absolutely useless point it's YOU. There was no need for name calling ("bunt"? Yeah, we know what you meant. Clever lad), or your comment "This isn't Lifetime," which strikes me as veiled putdown of women, or that a woman's opinion couldn't possibly matter.

If you weren't so vile in your comments, I'd find the statement "Get out of here with your stupid raising of questions" hilarious... If questions bother you, why are you even watching LOST in the first place?

As for the episode itself, I have to admit that Sawyer's action didn't really register with me until I read this. After I thought about, I realized the images were fairly disturbing. I don't think there was any ill intent on the part of the writers, but yeah... In retrospect it's pretty creepy. Almost as creepy as some of the ugly comments Alex and others here hae made.

Was there a purpose to that scene, or was it an error in judgement on the part of the writers/producers? Hard to say.

SOLUTION:

For one brief instant all timelines converge and in that moment, Smokey Ekojudges Kate in the past, present and future. Poof! Poof!
Poof! All LOST problems solved.

P.S. The above solution is not intended to condone, make light of, or in any way comment on the above discussion of what some perceived as sexual battery.

First, I respect anyone who likes or doesn't like a scene or character. Lost is a great, great program, but its not perfect.

Having.Said.That. The characters on Lost are deeply flawed people under extreme stress. They have lied, cheated, and even murdered for various reasons on the island and/or before they came to the island.

The characters of Kate and Sawyer are criminals. Bad ones. They are not meant to act like a gentleman and a lady at all times. And they haven't.

I didn't like it when Jack pulled the trigger on Locke this season. But that's Lost!

Lost will not solve it's mysteries for two more seasons, so character conflict will have to drive many plots.

Anyway, I can't wait for Thursday night!

I think Kiki hit on it. Kate doesn't like to be restrained/controlled, whether it be in handcuffs, relationships, or cages. This makes the fact that she readily agreed to stay in California for ten years all the more interesting.
On another note, I find the bitching at one another that goes on in message boards another example of how the internet degrades social interaction by allowing people to sat things online that would get their asses kicked were they said at a party. Isn't the internet "empowering"? Come on folks, we all love "Lost". Isn't that enough?

...
Is this a joke???

This is the same thing that happened after "Strange in a strange land" (with the whole:Jack assaulting Bai Ling???), that's what happens when we see a really bad episode, we want to find reasons of whyyyy. It was a bad episode and that's all!
Why did nobody say anything after the Kate-assaulting-Sawyer scene in Catch22...???Because it was a good episode after all.
What I think? Kate wanted to be up, seriously(and after all the holding-hand moment was just a second, because a second after she's touching his neck...)And Sawyer wasn't the only one getting mixed signals, me too.Why I am wasting my time on this?

Probably because of the way Kate has treated Sawyer for the entirety of the show, I didn't even notice anything being possibly wrong with that scene at all until reading this thread.

And probably because of my continued dislike for Kate's behavior for the entirety of the show, I'm still having trouble seeing that scene as *that* negative, relatively speaking, although I guess I can see your point.

Hell, I thought he was being a complete gentlemen for not slapping her back.

"Sawyer" (or "James," if you like) and Kate are fictional characters.

You might ask what the writers intended, or whether there was meant to be a subtext. You might ask whether Sawyer's island sperm count of 7 billion made him want it a little more. You might ask whether Kate is stupid/retarded, given that she's on "Pregnant ladies die in agony" island.

The question of whether their actions are "appropriate" is a nonsensical question. They're not real.

That is all.

Are you kidding me? Kate wakes up in his bed in her underwear and starts kissing Sawyer, she gets him all hot and bothered, and then because he doesn't get up the nanosecond she says "No" that is equated with rape. What am I missing???????? The fact that she is sitting there in her underwear after voluntarily coming to his house (completely sober mind you) has nothing to do it either I suppose.

I can't believe the issue is even raised.

The more horrifying thing about the scene is that Kate slapped Sawyer without provocation. Nothing is said about the fact that he did not respond in kind. Not to mention that she led him on in the way she did only to say no twice. Apparently she did the same thing the night before.

What's even more remarkable is that we have an ex-con on an island with no law enforcement in sight and Sawyer still did not take advantage of the situation.

God bless Sawyer for having the patience of a saint to (1) not hit her back and (2) finish off what kate started after she changed her mind not once but twice.

This might be a tangent, but I have a question for the ladies:

Should Sawyer have been a gentlman, as he was, and not slapped Kate? or Should Sawyer have recognized her gender equality and smacked her back?

I simply took the scene as further proof that Kate is unable to be or feel confined in any way. She only makes decisions ON HER OWN terms. She has never had a give and take relationship. She never relinquishes control or shares. She is completely self-centered, and unable to have true intimacy with another. Everything revolves around her own feelings and needs. Every man she has ever been involved with, has only been a stepping stone or a tool in some plan of hers. -even if we don't see her plan...yet
Her newest male cover / companion...Aaron.

I am a woman.
I believe in equality between man and woman.
And answering your question, Merlboroman: I don't believe in violence.
But if you mean if most of the people see in a different way an action made by a woman or one made by a man, I'll say that this is still happening (and sometimes it's necessary).
And, talking about this scene, it has to be seen in its context, I think that what the writers were trying to say us in that scene is how confused is kate about her future: should i stay on the island or should i go even if i will be sent directly to prison???That's the question. I thought that it was obvious!

I'll certainly agree that that was the worst received episode this season (it's definitely my least favorite), but I doubt that scene being "disturbing" had anything to do with that.

The episode simply wasn't well executed. The courtroom stuff wasn't believable and filled with factual errors. We got to see Locke suckered once again, which everyone is tired of. We got this scene, which barely even made sense - I'm sure they were intentionally going for ambiguity, but it left me scratching my head - WHY did kate slap him and leave?

Not a bad episode, but definitely the weakest this season. But fans not liking it doesn't mean they were "disquieted" by this scene.

Aside from the whole "no means no" argument, my take on it was that Kate had started her period and for that reason she wasn't open to going any further with Sawyer. This is why she was so adamant about knowing that she wasn't pregnant. She was like "uh, yea James... I'm pretty sure that I'm not pregnant"

IMO, I don't think her resistance had anything to do with conflicted feelings for Sawyer or wanting to hurt him. It simply had to do with bodily functions.

lol Good one Dakatak! But then again....do you think Sawyer is the type of guy that would have minded? Why don't you put that in your pipe and smoke it Keeping Awake.lol

I back this being on the front page. And aside from that, I think the scene was disturbing, but at the same time it speaks volumes about how the losties have started to live by their own rule and that rule includes a bit of primality. Of course, Sawyer didn't rape Kate, and wouldn't have raped Kate, but perhaps the scene in a way was symbolic of team locke becoming the others. That is, in part, what the episode was about for me.

Sawyer is very much behaving like he just got inducted to never never land. He has a nice house on a deserted island, lots of books, his boyish sense of 'entitlement' was coming out.

I simply post items that may be of interest for the Lost fandom-Theories, Interviews,Recaps, Lost News, etc. People are welcome to agree or disagree. You may, however, have noticed that I don't find it necessary to descend into name-calling and flaming if I disagree with any particular poster. It is possible to express your opinion without personal attacks. The Lost fandom is one of the most intelligent of any television show. I would have thought that we, of any group, could discuss things without resorting to personal attacks.

Then don't bring up a discussion based on a personal feelings about a scene. You want to keep this objective? Talk about the many mysteries of this amazing show and the religious or scientific ramifications. I am sorry to disagree with you but you brought this on yourself KeepingAwake, by making it personal in the first place.

It is entirely possible to reply, in disagreement, without resorting to name-calling and personal attacks. You almost manged that yourself!

I agree with you that one does not have to name-call to disagree with someone; it certainly isn’t the classiest method of debate. But hey, there’s that lovely thing called freedom of speech. You started a post that was entirely based on, what is to some people, a very touchy sexual subject. It was an opinion post, which leaves you open to personal attack. Did you think you would not get some kind of adverse reaction from some people? I am not saying that one shouldn’t try to be civil when posting, but I also believe that if you are going to open such a reactionary door, you should be ready to roll with the inevitable punches.

If I were an sponsor of this site, I'd sure want my ad on this post's page, given all the traffic it's getting!

Right, wrong or indifferent about the original posting being on the main page, it's obviously a topic that many have felt compelled to chime in on - agreeing or disagreeing, which, IMO, means it was probably worthy of a main page post in the first place.

Ben-I've got no issue with you. I was frankly surprised and disappointed that some in our community resorted to personal attacks on me and one another. Sorry if I seemed to be singling you out, when you really didn't cross the line at all.

Sure opinion topics will bring, well, opinions!

I just hope that we can all discuss, argue, etc. without attacking each other. We have such a smart and passionate group of people here! It's really exciting to see all the discussion that comes from ANY post. Just would hope that we keep it interesting and exciting without ever needing to attack anyone personally. We're a bright enough group to express our ideas without resorting to that sort of foolishness. ;)

I have learned, and no doubt will continue to learn, much from our great group of posters! Always look forward to the debate and discussion here. :)

Wow, somehow I missed Alex's comment. Yeah, way to step way way way out of line there. KeepingAwake has been keeping this site alive lately if you haven't noticed; and besides, she brought us the most awesome ho ho theory, a veritable singularity in the Lost world. So, uh, yeah. Shut up. Now please discuss the point.

There was nothing offensive and scary there.
1)Kate and Sawyer are intimate. 2)She came over. 3)She climbed in bed with him and spooned. 4)The next morning Sawyer asks himself. Hey, should I jump up to get some Frankenberry or make love with Kate instead?

So he initiates the dance of love, and she rejects him. It makes no sense why. She firmly rejects again and he gets it this time. This also triggers his defense mechanisms. Conning, using of people is what she just did to him. He feels she used him for comfort through the night and as a tool to get past Locke to get Miles and Ben together. So the murderer Kate used the con-man murderer Sawyer. She was also hurt and offended by his joy at 'not' being a father. The night before he stated that she could stay by him and that he would protect her from Locke's banishment. Now in the light of day, it was appearant that she was only in camp for her reason and was preferring to go back to the Jack camp. She states this in last nights episode to Jack as further proof.

You can look at each and every relationship in life and pick them apart as to where the balances are. Maybe one person gives 60% to the other's 40% or one makes all the decisions. That is the magic of relationships.
What the heck is many shades of Ick anyway?

offensive and, frankly, scary? frightening, offensive, and just many shades of IIIIIIIICCCCCKKKK
were your reactions!

But, you are not Kate.

Don't forget also that James ford's mother rejected his dad in favor of a swarmy con man. This led to the man's heart and ego being ripped asunder. Broken, he took a gun ending life in that woman, in himself and killing so much of that little child that day.