Open Discussion: Cabin Fever

Not a bad Episode, but I was really hoping for a bit more time in the Cabin and maybe some more info revealed.. Cabin Feaver was overhyped and made me believe something bigger would happen than what it did.. especially for the Last Episode before the 3HR Finale.. hopefully the next 3hrs of the show are just awesome.

Thought tho.. I think that Moving the Island, means moving it to another TIME, not a physical space.. thats what i first off when I heard that.. Thoughts?

alpert is the g-man from half-life...

I thought Claire was creepy too.
Well as for Abaddon and Alpert, if they are associated with The Black Rock, I figure we will soon be seeing some early ninteeth century flashbacks perhaps this season. I think the backstory of The Black Rock and richard Alpert will fill in a lot of blanks.

Maybe they'll wait for the season finale for that

going with Kryptic here. was really hoping for more cabin time and more clarity on the nature of Jacob. epi was still great.

also believe that the 'move' is a time move, not a physical one. and yes, Claire was very creepy. I guess hanging around a dead parent will do that.

Random thoughts:

-Anthony Cooper is Locke's dad (He's twice your age!). What might you think it might be someone else?

-I'm not too sure what to think about Claire. Before "The Beginning of the End", I thought dead people on Lost only appeared before certain people. Like Christian appearing to Jack on the island, Ana-Lucia appearing to Eko in a dream, etc. But in "The Beginning..." when the other guy at Santa Rosa saw Charlie and pointed him out to Hurley, I got all confused. That said, I think Claire is still alive. I just have a feeling...

-Matthew Abbadon is quite possibly the best addition to the cast this season and maybe even the best guest star in the history of the show. I hope we see more of him in the finale and the following seasons. His suggestion the Locke go on a walkabout brings the "Were they all manipulated onto 815?" theory back to the forefront. For some reason, I had an idea during last night's episode that Abbadon and Widmore aren't working together as I first thought. Maybe they both want Ben, but for different reasons. Any other thoughts on that?

-I have no idea why Jacob wants Locke to move the island and I have no idea how they're going to do it.

-My calls for death in the finale: Frank, Michael, Keamy, several other Freighter Mercenaries. Hopefully Frank or Michael kills Keamy.

Yeah, not sure why everyone thinks Anthony Cooper isn't locke's dad anymore?

Alpert and Locke kind of reminded me of Qui-Gonn and Anakin Skywalker from Episode 1. He is the chosen one who tests off the charts and the representative from the Jedi Order goes to test him and try to get him to come with them. Just an interesting correlation.

Also when Keamy says he knows where they will be going, I think he knows they will go to The Orchid to try to move the island. The DHARMA logo from the freighter manual was The Orchid one. I think Widmore knows they'll try to move the island.

Here is what I was thinking: Alpert wanted Locke to be leader of the Others, that's why he was at his birth and so on. But as he recognized, that Locke wasn't ready for "his school", he chose Ben instead. That is also why the island cured Locke and gave Ben the spine-tumour. Because Locke's now on the island and ready to be its leader.

My thoughts...
Alpert - I don't think he is Lockes dad. I don't really have any good reason for this other than gut instinct and I could definitely be wrong. He seems more like a headhunter or something to me. The scene with Alpert and young John was awesome and the first thing I thought of was reincarnation. It seems like John was born with memories or visions of his later/past life? and/or time on the island. He drew a picture of the smoke monster killing someone (tres creepy anyone?) Alpert always looks the same too which in my book makes him even creepier! When Young John picked up that knife I totally freaked out, it was too cool!

Claire - I am bummed to say it but I am heavily leaning on dead at this point. She just seemed off and I honestly cannot begin to even consider the fact that she has voluntarily left Aaron. I mean think about her reaction when Ethan kidnapped her or when Roussou took the baby. No, something has happened to our sweet Claire and she definitely seems to be working for the island at this point. Oh, and she was so creepy it gave me a chill!

Abbadon - I swear, for a second, I really thought he was going to push wheelchair Locke down the stairs. That guy is weird and obviously an associate of Alperts.

Lapidus - I am totally expecting something heroic here, I have a feeling he figures out a way to get rid of Keamey et al.

Other cool moments -
Sayid is a bad ass and I love it, that guy seems fearless!
Ghost Horace talking to Locke and directing him to look for his body, so cool!
Ben saying, "...because destiny John, is a fickle bitch" Loved it! Love Ben and love John, best actors on this show, when they are together in a scene its just amazing!
The boat doc getting his throat cut and thrown overboard after the morse code message was sent/received.
Hurley sharing his candy bar with Ben.
Move the island? How, to where? In time or just location... more questions here than answers at this point.

I'm surprised no one noticed that when Richard went to Locke's foster home with his "bag of tricks" asking Locke "which of these are [his]" that it was the same test they use to find the next Dalai Lama.

chromatic -
really like where your head is at.
Everyone else, I don't have anything to disagree with or add, so...Yay!

Oh, Anthony Cooper is Locke's dad...or at least related to him. Remember, he needed a kidney from someone with his bloodtype. Also, unless the Emily who introduces herself to Locke is a liar (and it's possible) then Ben's Emily is not Locke's Emily. I'd almost suspect that she is, but it's too early to call.

I think they mean to physically move the island. I mean they have the co-ordinates now. Stay on bearing 305 to enter it safely. So they have to move it by degrees. And in the Flashforwards Jack is using all the tools but still can't seem to find it.
If Aaron is where he is meant to be, why does Hurley tell him he can't raise him. Does that mean he isn't meant to be involved or that Sawyer should raise him with Kate.
Does the island make "bad" people sick?
Did anyone notice how Keamy's gun didn't fire when he pointed it at Michael - he even checked to see if he had rounds in - Michael can't die yet?! He has work to do!
I think Claire is dead and in that scene knows her biological father is Christian.

@laceyloowho: I think the picture that Young Locke draw is not showing "someone" with Smokey, but him. It looks to me like it's the scene in season 1 where smokey draws Locke into that hole.

@Lost Time: Yea, that would fit to my theory. Nice find.

I’m pretty sure "move the island" does not mean physically move the island... More like move the "portal" that leads to the island. Now don’t get all riled up quite yet, by portal I just mean the coordinates that everyone has been following to get on and off (Fahey style). I believe that there is one path on and off the island that you can use in which time isn’t effected (sickness, rocket and dead body time change etc.). The swan station used to change this "portal" (or coordinates) every 108 minutes. But now that it doesn’t exist it’s been set for the one that Frank has been flying on and off through (maybe faraday found this one? or it was visible to the freightie squad/Widmore when the sky turned purple?). But there is still one way to "manually" change the portal coordinates. The orchid station! That is why the folder Keamy takes out of the safe has the orchid logo on it. Since I believe Widmore funded the dharma initiative he knows that the only thing Ben could do if their mission was failing would be to change the coordinates of the entrance to the island. Right now the freighter is point a and the island is point b. Think of the "portal" as a straw connecting these two points. If you don’t follow the coordinates as they are right now correctly you enter a straw that has the same points a and b but is more like a bendy straw with varying length of tight folds in it... Same distance from point a and b BUT takes either less or more time to get from beginning to end. That is why the rocket got there late, yet the doctors dead body got there early.

Might need some fleshing out but I think it works. Let me know your thoughts!

-Jonah

Awesome, Jonah!
The swan and the code finally have a reason. Nice idea, I like that.

Another interesting tidbit- Alpert was out island hopping in the 50's looking clean cut and modern. A few years later he looked like he'd been shipwrecked for 20 years when he ran into young Ben. Is this timetravelling or did Alpert and his crew run into hard times in the interim? Such as DHARMA stealing their resources?

Also - As for locke being visited by alpert when he was a boy... The test where you have to remember things that were your posessions in a past life is the same test that they give to children when searching for the next Dali Lama. Upon the death of the Dalai Lama and consultation with the Nechung Oracle, a search for the Lama's reincarnation, or yangsi (yang srid), is conducted. Familiarity with the possessions or attributes of the previous Dalai Lama is considered the main sign of the tulku. The search for the reincarnated mindstream typically requires a number of years. The reincarnated being is then installed and trained by the other Lamas.

Pretty sure this means that Jacob is dead (for lack of better words) or his power is almost completely faded and either Locke has been tapped to be the next Jacob OR his "list" is of people in consideration, we just havent seen Alperts visits to them when they were children yet.

I think Locke picked the knife because he spent his whole life rejecting who he is (for whatever reason). He wanted to have the knife (be a hunter) when (in my opinion) he KNEW he wasnt supposed to pick it up. Same as he rejected the Mittelos science camp, pretending he was more into sports and girls. He has for whatever reason spent his entire life desperately clinging onto a life different from his own.

Not sure why or what that means, just putting it out there for some conversation!

Cheers!
Jonah

@chromaticblues
Ya, ur right! I didn't even think of that... good call, that makes it all the more interesting. How can he remember that as a child when that event hadn't happened yet? Its a boggler!

Riddle me this - Who is Locke's mother?

BTW, great comments everyone.

-UPDATE- to my theory on the orchid station and portals/coordinates etc. - I dont think these coordinates/portals are random i think ben only has the 12 vile vortices to choose from. When he has to move the island he just has to turn the door to a different vortice. Like when he goes to spy on Syid, he just cranks the old portal door dial to "Tunesia" and pops through! That explains why the freighters already had the coordinates, they know the door can only be turned to one of the vortices and when the sky turned purple they saw that it was set for the one where they ultimately sent the freighter. The swan used to cycle the portal door from one vortice to the next every 108 minutes (maybe randomly or in some sort of order).

Cheers!
Jonah

Happy Gilmore

Refresh my memory - the woman who claimed to be Locke's mother in Season 1 or 2 wasn't really, right? She was just some con lady?

I am still sitting here thinking about Locke, his origins and reincarnation. Am I the only one who believe the "right" choice in Alperts "Dali lama" test was the comic book? According to the post Lost Mythos - Mystery Tales Revealed! The comic book is dated April 1956 and, according to Lost Wiki, Locke wasn't born until May 30th of that year. Significant?

Also I was wondering if the "Emily" that John met was not his mother but his grandmother? Im probably crazy but its a though ;)

If anthony cooper is locke's dad, and the same guy emily was going out with at the start of the ep - wouldn't he have to be like, 80 years old? - assuming that emily was 15 when she gave birth, and cooper was "twice her age," (30), and Locke is about 48 right now, cooper would be 78...I don't think he looks anywhere near that age...so either there's a chance he's not locke's dad, or emily was sleeping around...

Maybe this is stupid... Does anyone else think Ben and Locke could be brothers?

Favorite moment from cabin fever - Hurley and Ben sharing the candy bar. That was brilliant!!!

It's definitely not impossible, Rob. As far as I can tell.

So last night's episode - amazing. I always kind of thought something was up with Alpert, in that he has NEVER AGED. Nor has Abaddon, apparently. I always kind of wondered if the island had the power of eternal youth. Remember when Ben was a child and met Alpert the first time? He said he wanted to join the natives, and Alpert said "You're going to have to be very patient." Maybe I'm overthinking it all?
Anyway. I didn't think Claire was 'creepy' inasmuch as she is now in on the secret(s), whatever it/they may be.
Something I often wonder about, and do now again especially, because last night was about the origin of John, is when Ben opened the door, and showed John his father. Remember what his father said? He said, "Don't you realize where we are?" And then they gagged him and took him away. Where are they!
Also, the song that opened last night's episode. We've heard it before in the show, but I don't remember when. Anyone remember?

YouAreEverybody.

Two things.

1. Locke's father thought they were dead and in hell. "A little hot for Heaven?" is what he said too. I wouldn't read too much into that. He had been in a major car accident then woke up tied in a room. Thinking he was dead and in hell wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

2. I remember on several LOST message boards after we first saw Alpert in the past and he looked the same age, I (and several others) started saying that he must not age and we were shouted down and laughed off. Redemption is nice.

laceyloowho - the correct choices were the sand and the compass... thats why Alpert was getting so excited... then Lockes need to reject his own instincts and life path kicked in and he picked the knife thus letting Alpert down. Little Locke just wasnt ready.

-Jonah

I absolutely love the theories everyone brings. They are well thought out, and usually plausible. May not become factual but that's the thrill of the show with us trying to decipher the huge mystery of the show. I got one...

I brought this up in another thread, but I still think that Ben and Locke could be half bros? Both Mom's were Emily's. We all know how the writers choose the character names very carefully. Also that conversation between Ben and John about their differences could be one of those ironic exchanges that the writers like to push on us. Maybe they are a bit more similar than they think. I know some will bring up the fact that we met Locke's mom, Emily, in season 1 and Ben's Emily died during childbirth, so they cant be the same person. Well, John's Emily was involved in the elaborate con with Cooper, so she could have been impersonating his Mom. John hired Frainey, a PI, to research his Mom and Dad. I think that Frainey was in on the con, too, b/c ultimately Cooper needed Frainey to give John the information on his whereabouts in order to get John's kidney. Cooper's cons were really good so he covered all possible angles.

Maybe the writers did not originally intend Ben and John to be half brothers, but they decided that it would be pretty compelling if they were. It could work since John's parents that we met were cons. We all know that the writers did not have every detail in the story fleshed out from the beginning, so they make up things as they go along. Originally Ben was supposed to be around a 3 episode character, but everyone loved the awesome acting of Michael Emerson, so Ben has become one of main characters of the show. Proof that they are flexible in story.

Just a theory .... as good as any of the other ones like Alpert as Ben's dad....

LOCKE: "I'm not you, Ben"

BEN: "No, you're certainly not..."

John Locke = Lord Voldermort

Note the similarties in the scene when Alpert visted Locke, as when Dumboldore visted Tom Riddle.

You are special, and we have a school for people like you.

Fantastic. Loved the return after so long to the traditional flashback. Loved the cabin scene and especially loved Ben and Hurley charing an Apollo bar.

A few thoughts...

The reason I think Claire does not get off the island is because the island needs Aaron to find it again in the future. I think that Aaron will help the 6 find the island again after it gets moved. It will probably be moved after they leave. It's also why they are having a hard time trying to find it again.

The island has obviously tried to course correct things by tring to get John to the island his whole life.

I also think that there is no Jacob. The Island is manifesting itself (once again) as this Jacob.

*Claire was indeed creepy, and I don't think she could be in the cabin without being dead.

*Does anyone else remember that a few episodes back, Ben told Widmore, "I hid the island"? Not Locke. Not Locke, Ben, and Hurley. Just Ben. Personally, I entertain a theory that Ben controls what goes on in the cabin, despite everything he says to the contrary. That means that Ben either is or controls Jacob, and that Ben set up a fake death for Locke last season. (Hey, it got Locke more than ever to believe that he is being called by the island, as also happened in "Cabin Fever.")

*Did anyone else notice the similarities in the way people were arranged in the cabin to one of the boxes in the character map bonus feature on the Season 2 DVD? For the box with the shadowy figure that appears amidst static (some people call the shadowy figure a "waving person," but I rather think he's trying to signal for help -- hence, my guess has always been that he's Jacob), Christian's line comes in at the top center and Claire's line comes in on the right. They were sitting in those positions in the cabin. The only one missing in connection with the character map was Jack, who should have been sitting on the left, since his line comes in on the left. But I don't think he could be sitting there in the cabin because he's not dead ... at least not yet.

I believe Jacob/ smokey/ and the walking dead are all connected somehow, there are a lot of possible ways. (Maybe it's a collective consience of the island itself.) It seems to be a melting pot of people who have "passed" while ON the island. This brings me to question why Smokey didn't kill the soldiers on the island (I think the one dies when he got back to the freighter). Was this a choice to make sure those evil jerks don't become part of a collective conscience, thus not influencing the island's fate. I also think this puts an interesting persepctive on Smokey and who and why he kills. Maybe it's not punitive, maybe it's a selection and once you're found worthy, or have something the island's conscience needs it kills you to bring you into full communion with the island, thus part of its conscience....o.k. my brain hurts...I'm stopping before the smoke alarm goes off.

I posted this on the screencaps thread, but just to toss it in- that "book of laws" Albright presents young Locke isnt likely a legal book. By its symbology, its either related to the French with an English title, or its an occult book, possibly similar to Aleister Crowleys The Book of Law.

Good stuff all. I remember back in the day at the tail section doc had everyone guessing who the waving figure is. I believe in keeping with budhist themes (searching for the reincarnated dhali lama) Aaron is Jacob. I also believe it's why Walt was so special. I think Walt was born on the island. I think Walt's step dad was an other who comes to the conclusion that Jack is coming to. Anyway, back to point. The connection between Jack, Claire, Christian, and Aaron is obviously blood line. Once they get Jack to believe the circle will be complete. In the meantime the island needs special people (Ben, Locke) to maintain the order of things...

I definitely don't think Ben has resolved to give up his position/power/standing with the island. We have already seen him in the future and he is more bad ass than ever. I think he is playing Locke pretty hard at this point. He wants Locke and Hurley to believe that his time is over and that a new leader has emerged. What do you guys think about his comments about destroying the original DI and saying that it was not his decision?

I hope speculation is okay on this board. If not, ignore the following and I apologize. I am sure I am wrong anyway.

This may be obvious, but my guess is that Sayid takes the other five Oceanic 815 survivors off of the island on the raft, then the island moves. The six escape on the freighter. If this is correct, then Desmond and Michael are in trouble as they are currently on the freighter and the helicopter and raft are gone.

My question: when alpert visits locke, what was he supposed to choose? the sand (from the island), the book of laws (john locke the philosopher)? i don't get it but i bet it means something.

@ Happy Gilmore

I thought that too, but remember last week when Jake got mad at Kate about the Sawyer thing, He said that Sawyer choose to stay on the island. I took it as some people could have been rescued but decided to stay instead. So I think you're idea might be headed in the right direction, but there's probably more to that story.

Whyyyyyyyyyyy is Desmond staying on the freighter???? It's not Penny's boat!! Penny is going to find the island, not the freighter! AAGGHHHH. (If the freighter even exists soon...)

Also: When boy-Locke chose the knife, I think that was the first time we've seen Richard Alpert get upset about anything ever.

Can someone clarify for me what that shadowy, waving figure is that everyone is talking about? Link or picture or sth?

Here's something kinda odd. I don't think I've seen anyone anywhere discuss what Hurley mumbled when Locke woke him up in the jungle. I think Hurley said "Man on thge moon". For the heck of it, I type Hurley+"man on the moon" into a Google search box and ... whaddya know, there a Hurly Man on the Moon t-shirt. Pure coincidence and silly, but ... there ya go

Here's the linky
http://islandsurf.com/Man_On_The_Moon_Hurley_SS_Tee-p9742c605.html

cheers!

Awesome, fishiam. I have to watch that scene again.

Hey chromaticblues. The waving shadowy figure is in the special features of the season 2 dvd. There's a section that shows how everyone is linked up untill that point. The waving figure is part of Jack, Claire, and Christian's links...

Okay, I have to check that. Hope it's on the German edition also.

Fishiam - Hurley said "malomars" when he woke up.

What's "malomars"?

Just amazing scene!http://www.lostcommunity.co.uk/forums/abc-4-11-cabin-fever/7753-these-things-belong-you-now.html#post264648

images from scene

sorr didn't post properly Locke's Item's - Alpert's Disappointment