LOST has finally made its return, and what a return it was. The series wasted no time picking up where it left off, casting our beloved characters like dice on a gameboard of danger, revelation, and mystery. The three hour premiere event ran at near overload proportions, beginning with a game changer and ending with a character twist capable of sending us all back to the drawing board – or some chalkboard in the corner of a dank basement. Before we get into dissecting the episode, what do you say about tonight’s event? Sound off via polls and discussion. Haven’t seen it yet? Get out of here! You’ll be spoiled!
One of the big debates amongst critics has been whether or not 5.02 “The Lie” was a keeper or not. A lot of reviewers gave it low marks. Personally, I think the episode was good but just different enough in a sense of style to be somewhat jarring as a second half. Great stand alone, ill-fitting second half. But tonight is all about silencing our critical sides, right? This is about raw fandom oozing out of our finger types. LOST is back, and off to a great start. Sound off.
Tags: Because You Left, the lie
104 Responses to “Sound Off on LOST 5.01 and 5.02! Celebration or Frustration?”
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I thought both episodes were excellent,and I don’t see why people would complain about “The Lie” I though it was a very good ep, that I think was setting the stage for the next big step in the series
I think it’s unfortunate that a lot of fans of the show are so used to wanting crazy plot twists and answers that they forget that a truly good show needs to be more than a man spouting time travel theory to people – it needs to run the gamut of emotion and give us a bigger stake in the story than “there are people on an island who need to be saved”. Remember, this is something the show has been fighting against for years: to give meaning to the characters. The premiere was frenetic and action-packed, for sure, but the episode that resonates more with me has to be “The Lie”.
even the people wanting answers should have at least found a little comfort in the reveal of why Lockes legs became temporarily diasbled again while boone was climbing up to the plane in season one .. and if i recall correctly that happened more than once so i assume we’ll get a couple more instances of it .. one of the reasons i love the show so much is the fact it constantly goes back and covers the minor details .. the people disappointed about not getting huge answers need to be patient .. answers are coming there’s only 2 seasons left
Whoa! Did I miss something totally?
Locke’s legs became disabled again when Boone was climbing the tree why? Because Ethan shot him in the future?
omg i forgot about that! there is so much to digest, i don’t know what i think yet. it will take a rewatch online for me to even process it all…
I’m not convinced the two are related. When Ethan shoots Locke, it is just after the beechcraft has crashed. That happened long before the Losties crashed onto the island. From what I recall, Locke losing the use of his legs temporarily had something to do with his own inner struggle.
I agree. I don’t buy the connection either. But, to be fair, Rick didn’t say that. I was asking if that’s what he meant.
“even the people wanting answers should have at least found a little comfort in the reveal of why Lockes legs became temporarily diasbled again while boone was climbing up to the plane in season one”
To Kissy (You reply button isn’t working)
Yeah, I know. But he never said it was because he was shot by Ethan. I mean, that’s the logical conclusion to his statement, but maybe there is something else we’re missing.
Either way, I’m with you. I don’t think they’re connected
oh i fully implied that locke’s disability came from a point in the past .. why wouldn’t it .. inner struggle or not, in season one there was no time travel hints but now that it has been revealed it is a safe theory to ponder .. lets face it they have gone back and tied something in for effect before .. i’m sure they didn’t write it in as part of season one but they could have added it in for dramatic effect this season .. i stand by the two being related
hyper~
Ah, I get ya …I think over-excitement about the show finally returning is causing a lot of fans to see things that weren’t intended. In the newest video podcast Damon talks about answering the questions that the writers feel need to be answered, and I don’t think that what happened in Deus Ex Machina was lacking resolve, anyway.
A toast to the new season!
I think that a)he wasn’t able to go up there in the past because it would have changed the future and b)he wasn’t able to go up there in the “Deus Ex Machina” because – “Boone was a sacrifice the island demanded” – Boone was always meant to be the one to climb into the aircraft.
I loved “The Lie” – thought it was the better of the two, though both were pretty solid. Lost writers never throw in an arch without exlploring it well and examining it from every angle. I’d have been upset if the show were just like “they lied, now on with the story.” The story IS the characters, and I love that we got to see how hard it was for Hurley to cope with the sixer’s decision. The fact that he was the only one to disagree on the boat was great and it really resonates to the episode’s conclusion. Great character arch, great story!
“Because You Left” was certainly a thrill ride, but ultimately didn’t have much of an arch to it in and of itself, which leaves it only firing on one engine (character having taken second fiddle). I hope the “mode” of the season will be more like “The Lie,” but don’t worry plot/mythology fans: when the featured character is Ben/Locke/Desmond/Daniel, everyone will be happy
I’m in the minority here. I liked “The Lie” quite a bit, and “Because You Left” not so much. The season opener felt too jarring to me, trying to cover all these separate storylines — it felt like each scene lasted about 20 seconds. I understand their reasoning for the approach, to try and spark all the storylines and give the fans a look at everyone, but it resulted in a pretty disjointed “here’s this information” kind of episode.
“The Lie” on the other hand had a strong throughline, great scenes with Hurley showing some grit (if not wisdom), and one minor shocker (at the top), and two WTF moments near the end. That’s a winning combination.
Without a doubt, and regardless of what I said when I was in critic mode, “The Lie” had the most explosive twist. Maybe it felt so explosive because it was embedded in so much character development?
“because you left” was the better episode, but in the end I don’t think it does any favors to either episode to bind them together. Each is very different and to be honest with you I felt their were so many commercials during “the lie” I did not get a good sense of the show at all. I usually wait to watch the episodes online with out interruption but this was a special occasion. “Because you left” was just so much damn fun to watch and was so loaded in Lost mythology I couldn’t help but be bowled over.
They’re two very *different* episodes, and I liked them both for *different* reasons!! I thought both were above average epis.
The first hour had all the excitement of the jumps…. But it was starting to get old at the end of that hour. Hopefully (and I’m guessing this will be the case) the writers will allow the jumpers to settle down in a little more and not jump so frequently. My hope is that the first 5 some-odd minute segment (with Faraday working for the DI) will be one of those places, and that that ends up being somewhat of a flash-forward (forward being in the audience’s point of reference, towards a future point in the storytelling… not forward in the point of view of the jumpers) and that we see more of Faraday working for the DI later in the season. (My guess, once again, is that we will.)
As for the second hour… Loved it! The character dynamics were just awesome. I was reminded once again how Jorge Garcia just has great on-screen chemistry with everyone and just brings a really great dynamic to the show. His interaction with his mom was my personal favorite, and I *love* Carmen more and more with every appearance she makes. His scenes with Sayid, and the one with Ben was also notable. (Loved the improvisational use of the Hot Pocket as a projectile weapon, hahaha!)
And of course…. The scene at the end… Damn. Wow, just wow. That was something else.
P.S. – Just did some reading on Foucault Pendulums! LOSt is pretty much the only show on network TV that inspires me to go learn science stuff afterwards! =)
A few questions: Why couldn’t Sawyer see Desmond? I didn’t quite understand this. How big of a player was Pierre Chang. He certainly seemed like a big shot. What about his kid? Where or who is he now? Were Miles, Charlotte, and Daniel all born on the island? Will we see the monk again now that we have seen Ms. Hawking’s return. And what would have happened if Locke had moved that plane? Would that have saved Boone?
i dont think sawyer could see desmond because it never happened in the past so it could never happen ..or he would have recognized sawyer the first time he saw him .. locke couldnt move the plane to save boone, i dont know why though .. but daniel made it clear that if it happened you could change it .. it follows the theme of ‘The Time Machine’(2002) not the greatest movie ever .. but a good comparison of how you cant change the past
speaking of sawyers kid .. am i the only one who believes that its cassidy’s way of conning sawyer knowing he could con his way into some money .. or is he really a daddy? .. it only seems fair that one good con deserves another
oops u were talking about changs kid .. any way my question still stands
I think that Miles is Chang’s kid
I tend to agree. Too much of a coincedence that they showed him
cradling his infant son at the beginning. I’m also starting to believe that the Adam and Eve we saw in Season 1 could be Daniel and Charlotte.
I do wonder who is in charge of Dharma. Chang seems to be the highest ranking Dharma person weve seen on the island. I wonder if we will see the DeGroots or Hanso or Mittelwerk. Maybe kids couldn’t be born on the island because of the timetravel and they cant exist all over time. I don’t think it would save Boone if Locke moved the plane, because the universe would course correct and Boone would die some other way. Maybe time travel will explain the “ghosts” and whispers! Maybe some body tries to change things in the past, like saving someone who they know will die. Then maybe since the person was supposed to die they get stuck in time and become a ghost like Christian or Claire! Maybe Sawyer says screw Daniel, if we time travel to the point where Claire blows up, I’m gonna save her! Maybe the whispers exist where someone was talking at one point in time, then when time changes the people are gone for one reason or another, but their voices remain as whispers.
To clarify: Why couldn’t Sawyer knock on the hatch door and see Desmond?
I think it has something to do with a theory called Novikov’s Self Consistency Principle. To sum it up, if a person were to travel back in time and attempt to change the past, the probability of that potential change would be 0%. No matter what that person might do, the probability of them being able to change the past is nil. At least that is how I understand it…
I think that Desmond was playing Sawyer a little. No doubt the reasons he was giving were true, but as Faraday told Desmond, Desmond is special with respect to the whole time continuum and think Faraday just wanted a private meeting with Desmond so he tried to convince Sawyer he wouldn’t be able to see him anyway. After all, Faraday shouldn’t be able to see Desmond either right?
Desmond is Daniel’s anchor and they both exist in the ‘now’, but don’t happen to both occupy it. Since Desmond is Desmond no matter what year it is, Daniel can interact with him as long as it’s just him, because any changes would be made in the ‘now’, not the past. (To put it another way, they all exist in 2008. They are getting thrown into the past. If they existed in the past, it wouldn’t be a PAST, it would be the PRESENT)
Because Sawyer doesn’t know what one snowman would say to the other! Maybe he could, but Daniel knows it could have really dangerous consequences, and he is being very careful in what he is doing to try to change things. It is probably very dangerous for Desmond in the present to suddenly have new past memories, so Daniel doesn’t want overload him if he is the key to saving everyone.
Desmond acted very strange when he opened the door. First he acted very skeptical and very stress that someone was there. But he also made a comment about are you the one that’s been banging on my door for the last twenty mins. If all he wanted was for someone to show up to replace him in the hatch. why wait 20 mins to open the door. Also Desmond exists in two time loops. The real world off the island and also in the island time shifts. Is this makes him special? as Daniel says
I agree with numbersarebad – Sawyer probably could see Desmond, but Daniel didn’t want him to. He knows Sawyer is a loose canon, and he didn’t want to take a chance with what Sawyer might say or do to Des. That would also explain why Daniel said something like, “I hope this works” right before he started knocking on the hatch door – he wasn’t even sure if his encounter w/Des would screw things up.
my take .. both episodes were quite funny in my book, the characters interact so well with each other that it makes every one liner that much more funny. that being said i think miles is the new sawyer when it comes to snarky one liners and now that saywer has taken on a new role its good to see someone filling his shoes
what i liked:
~the teaser answers(why locke couldnt climb up to the beachcraft),
~the teaser questions(why can’t we know the name of daniels mom right away, where does that twist come into play?) AND does ben answer to someone other than jacob or is this lady somehow involved with him doing his biddings?
*** HURLEY!! one of the biggest(no pun intented) character evolutions out there. the checkmate smile as he was getting arrested. he seems to be the key in bringing them all together.
~bens face revealing he knows what happened after they left while stating “..we’ll never know then”
~the fact we got hints towards a lot of answers or a story telling that made things seem more understandable without revealing too much
what i didnt like:(not much on this list)
~the jumping back and forth between characters leaving little time to reveal more, i’m sure it’ll get better as the “-centric episodes” come back into play but it just seemed they could have developed more with certain characters,
~the calmness of ben?? wasnt his normal creepy dramatic diabolical (etc. etc.) self .. to me it seems like he seemed hopeless almost defeated
all in all i havent decided the degree to which i judge these episodes and may not til i watch them again .. but i liked the direction theyre heading ..for those who didnt like it ..sorry to hear but honestly, no matter how the show ends some people will never be satisfied knowing it’ll never be enough kinda like the sopranos which i believe had a brilliant ending!
>why can’t we know the name of daniels mom right away, where does that twist come into play?
Must be Mrs. Hawking, right? Oxford/England and apparently a physisist, it all fits together. I think that’s the whole twist, we have seen her mother before (similar to the reveal of Sawyer’s father).
The story lines have become so fragmented that it’s really difficult to judge. I see both episodes as an introduction, setting the beginnings of future story arcs. In that respect they were very similar, simply pushing foward the intended plot. If future episodes will concentrate on just one group of the losties with one-episode story arcs, it’s going to be a better pace.
I agree. I’ve said from the beginning they’re rushing it. As much as I loved the idea of there being a series end date, I’ve always maintained that 48 episodes was never going to be enough, well atleast in my opinion, to which we’re all entitled to. Last season’s finale and these first two episodes of Season 5 are, to me, a true indicator that the writers/producers suddenly woke up like halfway through season 4 and went “Damnit, we’ve only got 35-odd episodes left to tell this story. We better get a move on”. Despite all this, I loved both eps. I guess my real wish is that it go on for a bit longer. Season 6 should revert back to a 24 episode format (it’s only an extra seven) and premiere in the fall. Because after Wednesday another 8 month hiatus would be asking just a bit too much of the fans patience, I feel. A treat for the final season.
i sm gonna have to second that idea!
I loved both episodes, plain and simple, and we are set up for some good times on this show. Absolutely LOVE the Island jumping from 1 point in time to another, we’ll get all the history on the island by seeing what happened. And I really like the way they are “flashing forward and backward” Also, interesting at the end with Mrs Hawking, can’t wait to see more of that machine to determine where and when the Island is jumping…
I don’t know if anyone else noticed, since I haven’t seen anything regarding it yet, but on the series recap last night, one of the creators said the word “invisible”, then mouthed a few words which were edited out, then the audio continued. I wasn’t able to catch what the words were. I’ll watch it again later and then post the quotes around it and approx. when it is in the show.
Sorry, but who is Mrs. Hawking?
The woman who sells Desmond the ring when he first goes back in time.
And she’ll turn out to be Daniel’s mother, right?
God, I’m so LOST!!!
That’s most likely. The intresting thing is, that she’s obviously the one who tells Ben what to do!
I liked both episodes, but I think that the first one was better.
So, the first scene of the first episode, what was that?, could we call it a Flashforward??? A flashforward to the past…….Obviously Daniel changed his mind, because first he thinks they shouldn’t interact with the persons who haven’t met yet, but then, he talks to Desmond, and then he’s with Dharma. Interesting.
Best of the episodes: action Locke is back (!!!!), the interaction between losties and freighties, the scene between Richard and Locke, Desmond waking up and remembering what Daniel told him,…and the ghost of Future Christmas line, that was great.
Action Locke indeed! Locke took out those guys with guns (who were they anyway?) with his mad knife skills. I also like the line when Miles says “she likes me” about Juliet. I’d rather see them together than Sawyer and Juliet, that is too predictable.
I agree, but there are some pretty reliable spoilers from TV Guide and Kriten at E that state he (Sawyer) and Juliet will make out this season. I truly thought the writers wouldn’t go there…far too predictable and the two have very little chemistry in my opinion. The only people that want them to hook up are the Jaters.
oh crap, I don’t know if I can handle another silly “shipper” title though…Muliet or Jiles? Oh and let’s not forget Chaniel or Darlotte, and Renard and Bose…these titles hurt my head more than the time travel stuff!
i would love to see a daniel and juliet hook up. all the nerdy lovin they could have…sigh
I just wanted to throw this out there…
Are we sure that Mrs. Hawking is Daniel’s mother? I realize she was using a blackboard similar to Daniel’s making mathematical computations, but could that be just another LOST ‘going to lead you one way, then blindside you with this’ type of moment? My only reasoning for this is that Ben said he would pick up Jack in 6 hours. Tried to get Hurley, failed, then flew to Oxford to talk to Mrs. Hawking? Even with the warping of time going on now, it’s still a stretch.
BTW, LOVED both eps. I’m still processing this morning….
we dont know at all. its just a theory that has exploded. i definately see the wisdom in it. if it happens to be so, i wont be surprised. but if it doesnt i wont be surprised either. it seems to obvious to me and not much in LOST is right in your face like that…except Sun calling Kate. I should have know it was Sun but I really was expecting Sawyers ex to be there instead.
That would be awesome if Mrs. Hawking was actually Penny’s mother. If that’s the case, then her and Charles NEVER talk, since Ben threatened Charles’ daughter.
I feel like a drug addict that has spent 8 months scowering my house for the drugs and finally found a dispenser machines in the attic. Although that means that there is only enough in the machine to last a few months. Poo.
Did anyone else notice what looked like smokie coming out of the Yemi’s plane. I think it was when Locke flashes after Richard takes the bullet out. It was the second time we see the plane in the tree and Locke glances up and sees the plane. You see a cloud of black smoke come out of the cockpit window, Locke doesn’t seem to notice or react to it. Seems similar to the black smoke leaving flight 815 when it hits the beach.
I saw the smoke too. I was wondering if it was a way to show you that the plane had just crashed and was still smoking (as a way of defining what time Locke was in)or if it was our old friend “Smokey”
I thought the second time we see the plane in the tree it seemed to have been there awhile not the recently crashed scene with no smoke from the engines. It just kinda comes out the window and it was very dark black. It just looked like differnt smoke than when we first saw the wrecked plane. I don’t think it has any impact on the plot. Just thought it was a possible easter egg they threw in.
Looked just like smoke from the engine – telling us that the plane had just crashed.
Crashing planes smoke, I don’t think we need to dig that deeply for smokey.
I wonder what caused the drug plane to crash, maybe because of the island skipping through time and or space.
Its engine was sputtering. Maybe just happenstance. We didn’t see any purple sky event like what brought down 815.
The plane was shot up when it escaped. (Eko pushed Yemi on board to save him. I forget which episode, but Season 3 I believe.) Presumably it made it as far as the Island before it just ran out of gas.
Good memory. Thanks.
There is no way that plane made it to the pacific ocean. For some sort of scale of reference it’s a half day flight on a 777 to get from london to shanghai which is a comparable distance.
I agree, but that’s what happened. So, maybe the Island was in a different location at that time.
Does anyone else find it ironic that Frogurt is killed by flaming arrows? I could think of no better death for the King of all things frozen than fire…haha. I was really hoping they wouldn’t keep him around..
I’m guessing Hawking is Faraday’s mother, and that Desmond’s search for her will lead to Ben ultimately finding Penny. A running theme in Desmond’s story is that he is a coward, and hopes to eventually redeem himself. Everything he has done so far has been to serve himself and his reunion with Penny. I believe Desmond’s ultimate fate will be that he gives his own life for Penny, protecting her from Ben.
…and I don’t think I’ve laughed harder than I laughed when Hurley attempted to assault Ben via Hot Pocket. Ben’s pretty lucky… those suckers get hot!
LOL yeah I loved the attack of the killer hot pocket. It’s not like Hurley to waste food like that. Ben didn’t even flinch, either.
I thought “The Lie” was the better overall episode. It had great character moments with Hurley, and it upped the ante of the danger on the island. Now they are in danger of losing their limbs.
Do we know for sure who shot the flaming arrows? Who were the soldiers? Unless I missed something I didn’t think they were Dharma or Others. Did Richard move with the island in time around Locke and 815ers/freighter team/Juliet? Does this mean the Others are part of the island? Shouldn’t Cindy and the kids that were abducted be out of place too? Everyone is mentioning Faraday’s mother, but did I miss the part where we learn who his father is? What will be the consequences of Hurley telling his mother the truth? Did Sun meet with Kate before or after she met with Widmore? I think Daniel thinks he can change history but he knows the risk so he doesnt want anyone to interfere. What will he try to do while working for Dharma? I have always wondered about Penny’s mother, what if somehow she was Annie. I know the age gap is there, but time on the island is different than the rest of the world. It would explain the deeper conflict of Ben and Charles. Maybe the Others were never the hostiles, but it was the 815ers back in time that were hostile and Dharma didn’t know the difference. I knew Ms Hawking would show up, but I didn’t expect Ben to be there too. And what about the woman at the butcher place who was going to hold on to Locke’s body? Is she an off-island Other? Is Ms Hawking for that matter? Maybe Jacob is Mr Hawking? …I gotta catch my breath…”Bloop”
I think my nose is bleeding…
The costume designer in me got the impression that the men that captured Juliet and Sawyer for a bit, were from an earlier time period than what we’ve seen thus far on the show. Something about the color and style of what they were wearing, and they way their hair was styled. Possibly early to mid 20th century.
Maybe from Danielle’s team or even from the Black Rock.
Oooh…yeah I hadn’t thought of Danielle’s team! That’s surely a possibitlity. As for the Black Rock…those uniforms were definitely too modern for that time period…I was thinking 1940′s or 50′s. And if I may speculate solely on the fact that they had British accents…maybe it was at a time that Widmore had control of the island? That guess is pushing it though…:)
They looked like mid-20th century military uniforms. Maybe Vietnam-era.
From a different LOST blog:
“It appeared to me Sawyer and his squad were caught in the middle of a fight between the Hostiles ( flaming arrows) and a DI security partol. The uniforms were 1960-1970′s era US military. (IMO)”
I think that makes sense.
I was thinking “World War 2″ or even “Korean War” era due to the carbine rifles, but regardless that led me to the thought about “how did you get knife from WW2″…wasn’t that in Season 2?
excellent point. I think another rewatch of Season 1 a must.
How did Faraday know Desmond would answer the door at the hatch, unless I missed something he didn’t know when in time they were, could’ve been Radzinsky or Inman right?
If Desmond was still wearing the suit, than it was definitely before Inman died.
“Did Sun meet with Kate before or after she met with Widmore?”
I think it was after she met w/Widmore because Darlton have said that events in each time period on the show are shown in chronological order. And in the show, if I remember correctly, Sun met w/Widmore before she met up w/Kate (right?).
Right.
It would seem that way. She met Widmore at the airport and you assume it is on her way to LAX. But they have pulled the out of order reveals before.
they do say shes going to LAX…doesnt mean thats its the same trip though. but honestly i think it is. Sun…she actually gave me chills. “Hows Jack”. that was only outdone by “Libby says hi”
Thanks for thinking about Cindy and the kids. They should be moving as well, unless the Temple ‘timeless’. Ben sent his people here, and tried to get Alex and co. there as well.
I have a problem with the common use of “jump the shark” as used in the poll. The term comes from when Happy Days had Fonzi waterski over a shark. That is a sign of complete desperation, lack of ideas and resorting to novelty instead of plot themes.
I propose that we use that term for when shows really do something that ridiculous and outrageous and come up with a new term for when a show starts to kind of not be as good. Everyone is saying “this show jumped the shark” if they do an episode that isn’t quite as good, or if the show’s quality starts to decline. In my mind that phrase means something very different.
I just had to get that gripe out!
Is Desmond special because he exists in the real time line (off island) and in the on island time jumble? That Daniel can use on island Desmond as medium to off island help.
I’m guessing it has to do with being in the hatch when it blew. If there is a near limitless energy supply somewhere on the island, then some serious damage could be done to time-space.
Locke and Eko were in the hatch when it blew. Are either of them special like Desmond?
Locke also appears in both time the real world (dead) and island alive. But Desmond is alive in both. Desmond talks to Dan on the island and then off island Desmond has the information needed via a memory. He is the only one that this is possible for, making him “special”.
When Desmond turned the failsafe key he was reborn “nude” on the island. Locke, Eko and Charlie moved/jumped clothed with either memory issues or injuries.
Eko’s ability to see island Yemi may have been enhanced by the imploding hatch. Charlie had major memory problem, like Charlotte. Locke has been moving around in time since his arrival (go back and watch Season 1).
Something clearly is different for Desmond from this point forward. This gives Daniel some hope that events on the island can be changed. Possibly the incident? Daniel has a mission on the island, past present and future. Maybe to see that the frozen donkey wheel is never turned, or that maybe he is the cause of the incident. The end game would have be to either make the island known to the world (impossible – i.e., limitless power corrupts absolutely) or the island is lost to the world forever.
Locke may currently be in a state of unconsciousness off-island (like Desmond in Flashes?) where the physical body appears comatose while the conscience moves in time. I’m just wondering if the mortician is working with Ben and this is a set up to convenience Jack to return. So when Locke’s body returns to the island he is, in fact, already there.
What I dont like is that time traveling is a very dangerous plot device to handle. for instance:
what happens to people that die in the past? aren’t the killers wondering who are they and how did they get there?
locke seems to have his knife so what’s the difference between the knife and the camp, why one disappears and the other doesn’t?
making desmons SPECIAL seems like a much tooooo convenient plot device
isn’t ethan going to wonder “hell I was just going to kill someone and he disappeared. he also tolde me ben is my leader, wtf??”. I know, this can be the way in which john locke is seen as the chosen one by Ben, but then it would create a more than tiny-easy-to-overlook-paradox.
I loooove the show and I intend of watching it religiously every week but time-traveling? I’m not so sure about that.
I agree, in that time travel is one of my least favorite plot devices. But I hope I’ll hold on because of the characters and the fate of the Island.
With Ethan, I think this is perhaps how Ben, among Others (har har), knows that Locke is one of the chosen. Imagine: Ethan goes back, reports what happens, and so years before Locke “arrives,” Ben is aware that the Island has chosen his successor.
Or something like that.
The issue being that Ethan will now recognize Locke in Ethan’s future (Locke’s past). Which should affect how they interact. Speaking of Locke’s past, if the island jumps into the time it previously occupied between the crash and the beginning of the jumps, will they occupy their old bodies? That would lead to Locke affecting his own past as well. They can talk about course correction all they want, but that would screw things up regardless.
exactly, the simple fact of interacting with someone you are eventually going to meet in the future is going to alter the events, somehow. in this specific case, Locke wouldn’t have appeared to Ethan had the 0ceanic 6 not left the island. my head hurts. I whish I could just overlook this stuff but I find myself searching for plot holes everytime someone time travels.
just because someone sees someone in their past, does not mean they will remember that person. I see thousands of people every day, and I doubt i will ever remember any of them, not even recognize them
Perhaps. But if you ran into a person who then magically vanished, I think you might remember that face.
And on an island w/a small # of people, you’re far more likely to remember a face!
I am not sure that when Locke is shot be Ethan that Ben is necessarily in charge yet. Maybe Ethan told Richard Alpert and that started the whole find Locke in the past as a child thing. Locke was to show Alpert a compass {note: the compass Alpert gives Locke is not the same as the one Alpert shows young Locke, but that maybe not be the point, only that it is a compass that connects Locke to the island}
I like the time traveling only in that it make me pay attention to details of the show and requires the constant (oh, I like that I worked that into this sentence) updating of fact presented from S1, S2, S3 and S4.
The show has been hinting at time travel for some time now.
Also, the difference with the knife, is the fact that it was said (I believe by Juliet): “Whatever we have on us must have come with us.” I’m paraphrasing there, but it clearly states that if some one has something on them, clothes, a knife, shoes, that thing is going to travel with them.
Also, we don’t know what time Ethan and Locke met up. Once Locke told Ethan that Ben would be appointing a new leader, Ethan says “That’s unlikely.” For all we know, this event could have taken place within days of the purge and Ben becoming the new leader. That’s why Ethan would find it unlikely that Ben would be appointing some one new.
yeah, I guess the “rule” about the stuff that time travels with a person can be overlooked. Still, I would appreciate it very much if someone could explain to me how is Locke meeting Ethan differente from Desmond meeting Sawyer. Thanks, for the insight Stotch.
Perhaps Locke was supposed to meet Ethan? Just as Richard was supposed to take the bullet out of Locke’s leg. Everything we’re seeing has followed a course that has already happened. Even though we haven’t seen it, these events are part of the island’s history. Sawyer and Juliet getting captured, Locke meeting Ethan, the raid on the beach, etc. Desmond and Sawyer meeting at the hatch on that day didn’t happen, because it didn’t already happen. This other stuff, did already happen, so it happened again.
I think I’m missing something basic here – why is the island jumping in time more than once? I thought Locke moved the island to one other point in time – so why is it still moving?
Wait for it…
…
Because They Left…
BOOM!
That’s it? It’s nothing more than “bad things keep happening to the people left on the island b/c the O6 left?”
That would be the O6 scratches on “you can’t make a” record. Somebody lift the tone-arm!
What makes me laugh, are the theorists who since season 2 have been saying they’ve figured it out, Lost is boring, blah blah blah. And despite the fact that not that long ago, Darlton told us that there’s no way anyone could figure it out, because they aren’t even close to having enough information. This was just last season I believe. Yet there are still people out there acting like they know how the next two seasons will go down, because they’ve “figured it out.” It’s like every theory I’ve read from week to week, is automatically disproven once the next episode rolls around.
PS – This isn’t a knock on theorists, as much as it is the people who claim to have figured everything out. I love reading theories and think a lot of them could be possible.
Did anyone else notice that the number Ben grabbed in the butcher’s shop was 342? While 42 is one of the numbers, 3 clearly is not. After thinking about it, though, I realized that one of the forthcoming episodes is titled “316″ and the Ajira Airlines clip posted recently references Flight 316. Once again, 16 is one of the numbers while 3 is not. Is it possible, though, that moving the Island has changed the first number from 4 to 3? I know it seems far off but the repetition of 3 cannot be insignificant! Perhaps moving the Island has altered one of those core values of the Valenzetti equation, fundamentally changing the numbers! Thoughts?
Going back into season 1 with the number theories. There was some talk about this when “48 Days” came out, but I can’t remember the logic. I read it at the Fuselage years ago. I know that a series of numbers beginning with 3 instead of 4 was discussed. Good luck find out more on this. The theory that some of the characters represent numbers in the VE is out there too. The other number seen is 72 on a jersey wore by witness in the parking lot where Sayid sent an assassin to his death. I think that the clock began counting down at 72 hours. Ben has 70 hours left to get everyone back.