Oh, Sayid, the carnage you sow. Sundown was a fun episode of LOST. I actually feel a little sick saying that, since it was largely a bloodbath. What I mean to say is that “Sundown” was as good a representation as you could get of the ‘high entertainment’ flavor of the LOST spectrum. It was brilliantly paced, intense, and showed just how inexhaustible some of these characters central themes are.
Largely, imho, the episode was about the inner conflict that dogs Sayid. He tries so hard to be a good man, and succeeds, yet he is capable of such awful things. The tragedy of it is that he keeps winding up in these situations where the well being of the people he cares about winds up drawing the darkness out. How perfect is it that his season five story has been about this hanging question of whether or not he will turn ‘evil,’ only to have the outcome ultimately hinge on that very theme – Sayid not only murdered Dogen and Lennon in cold blood, but a sizable number of the Temple Others – all on the promise that fake-Locke would bring Nadia back from the dead.
What was really nuts was the palpable nature of Sayid’s transition to the dark side. Naveen Andrews was killing it at the end – he was just oozing evil all over the place. Was that the temple’s cursed toilet water, or did Sayid come into contact with his inner bad guy and decide to make him his BFF? Sundown was a turning point in the story of Sayid’s inner turmoil, but it definitely wasn’t the end – in either universe. Rate. Rant.
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188 Responses to “Rate and Rant – LOST 6.06 “Sundown””
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“Locke’s” recruits are turning out nicely… interesting to note that mortal weapons seemingly can’t harm him. Wonder what his weakness will be?
doughnuts
yeah, but what kind? crawlers, glazed, boston creme..haha? it does look like a war is coming. though, right now, only one side seems defined…and with numbers. it will be interesting to see where kate falls. she seemed in shock, but interested enough to follow them and see where they are going. who knows…
Kate was the only one not infected that followed Locke out of the temple. I guess she is just naturally drawn to evil.
At that point she was just sticking with Claire. Did you see the look on her face when she saw Locke? Then he gave her the Smokey scan as well. She hasn’t chosen a side yet. She’s the wild card and he knows it.
as Irma says, Kate’s the wild card. I think thats why her name is not listed. What about the possibilitiy of her being jacob’s replacement and her missing name is a ruse to protect her?
She probably realized they would kill her if she didn’t come with them. So she probably had no choice. They killed everyone else who didn’t come.
After Smokey scanned Kate I really wanted him to smile at her and reveal an orange peel.
it had better not be something corny like “a child’s laugher”
Maybe not laughter, but his weakness could be that blonde kid running through the forest……
Fast paced episode. Ilyana and the gang showing up at the end seemed sloppy writing. Loved the Ben and Sayid interaction, though.
I agree, I forgot that Lipidus and the rest of ‘em were a part of the show and then all the sudden they are wondering around hallways not really that involved in what is going on, it felt out of place.
I kinda disagree. It’s true they didn’t really accomplish much but helping Miles escape (which he probably could’ve done on his own), but it makes sense that they’d go to the temple. And it was kind of refreshing in terms of plot mechanics. It broke up the “this week is group B characters” feeling for more of an ensemble feel, and ignored Lost’s annoying tendency to have characters announce exactly what they’ll do three episodes before they do it. And it was totally worth the tension in that Ben-Sayid reunion.
I agree with Todd. It wasn’t that jarring for me, being that we all knew they were headed for the Temple since “The Substitute.” Sure, it was convenient they arrived just in time for the sundown carnage, but it wasn’t completely unbelievable either.
I agree. Im just happy everyone is coming back together. They’ve been apart far too long. Miles didn’t even know Ilana until last night!
Yeah, I was actually thankful they simply showed up there instead of giving us an episode just to see them trekking through the jungle to get to the temple. Besides, the faster the groups reuinte, the better – Lost is at its best when it works with the ensemble, rather than when the characters are separated.
Agree 100% Todd.
I also agree with this.
I agree too. I feel as if these flash sideways are really taking away from the story on the island, and if these flash sideways arent particularly going anywhere and it’s just trying to show us what these characters lives would have been like if not for the island, then it’s all prety much a waste. I also feel like seasons 1-4 were paced very nicely, and they knew the perfect moment to throw in emotional scenes, but these last 2 seasons just feel extremely rushed and I agree in some parts that it looks “sloppy”. I think it would have added so much more to the show’s mystery, mythology, and overall storytelling if they kept it 24 episode seasons. I feel like alot more of the mysteries would be solved too. I still would like to know WHY that stewardess joined the Others.
Also, is it just me, or is the absence of a “real” Locke on the island just leave a bad taste in my mouth. If real Locke doesn’t make it back to the island, I’m gonna be pretty disappointed with the Locke/Smoke Monster storyline.
Real Locke is dead. His body went back to the island and got buried, so idk what more you want from him.
I loved the look on ben’s face when he sees sayid for what he has become. i thought he was going to pee his pants.
That Ben/Sayid interaction was awesome. When that happened, my wife looked at me and said, “If Ben is scared of Sayid, then he’s GOT to bad!”
I loved this episode, and thought it was Sayid’s best. And many great lines tonight, something we haven’t had enough of this season. I wrote a highlights, questions and quotes post for Sundown on my blog at http://connectwithyourteens.blogspot.com/2010/03/lost-sundown-episode-66-highlights.html. I would love to hear your thoughts.
those last 15 minutes were EPIC… i love that they managed to split up our losties on separate sides in a somewhat believable manner, even though it left me turning my back on an extremely badass sayid for jack… and jack’s been one of my least fave guys so far in the series
EPIC indeed!
yeah really good show, probably the best this season AND there were no answers. good effing writing.
though I am confused about Dogen being killed when we still dont really know what his job/purpose was on the Island or why he’s the reason the Smoke Monster cant get into the Temple. more questions….[sigh]
Isn’t it likely that Dogen and Lennon both will be “re-animated” and come back “infected” as Sayid did? I think we haven’t seen the last of Dogen especially. Maybe he’ll come back on MIB’s side?
That was my initial thought, that perhaps now they’ll be on MIB’s side because they’ll get infected too. The only reason I think they might not is because they were left in the pool and Sayid was not, and given that there was an hourglass to determine how long he was kept in the pool that suggests a time limit to me.
you’re right…never occurred to me that Dogen and Lennon were thrown into the “resurrection” pool. Will they be infected or was that part of Sayids plan to kill them and throw theminto the pool in the hopes they will “reanimate”
I sure hope not. I was never so happy as when Sayid slit Lennon’s throat.
And in his sideways reality, Lennon is a small-time pot dealer.
i believe the woman who “died in his arms” was meant to be Nadia, not Shannon, and the song has been sung by Kate and Claire.
I get the feeling we’re actually meant to wonder if it’s Shannon or Nadia. Being that it’s the final season it could be either. And yeah, I thought it was obvious that the creepy singing in the close was Claire doing ‘Catch a Falling Star’. That was done so perfectly.
Sayid is definitely referring to Nadia. She’s IN the episode. It has to refer to her.
That wasn’t Rousseau’s song–it was Claire’s.
It was the song that Christian used to sing to Claire when she was a bay-bee.
Rousseau’s song that Shannon translated was “La Mer”
why would kate follow them out?
I think she’s still more or less out of the loop on the whole good vs. evil thing. Doesn’t know Locke is Smokey, amazed to see he’s alive, and sees Claire and Sayid going along, so what the hey? But did you see the look Locke gave her?
seems like Locke was pleasantly surprised to see Kate. Maybe it’s cuz she’s not one of the numbers, or was expected to be with Jacob?
Don’t forget how hateful Kate was to the real Locke in LA, before he died. She told him he had never loved anyone. It was the cruelest we’ve seen her be.
The real Locke took it to heart. The smoke monster has revenge to carry out.
Great point, Wanda. I’m glad you brought that up because I’d almost forgotten the conversation between Kate and Locke back in “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham.” She was a real bitch in that episode, and as we’ve seen, this evil incarnation of Locke seems able to remember the dead man’s feelings and thoughts. It’s very plausible that he’ll have negative feelings toward Kate.
True but when he described what a sad being Locke was to Ben in the foot, he didn’t seem to care about him at all. The hatred he might have for Kate, being Flocke, is her manipulative way over the boys and could be a potential obstacle.
I think Smokey has bigger fish to fry than hurt feelings.
What about the possibilitiy of her being jacob’s replacement and her missing name is a ruse to protect her? She’s obviously important to the island, so why is she not a canidate…
Everyone keeps saying that her name was missing, but it was on the wheel in the lighthouse next tp #51, and it wasn’t crossed off.
Michelle, what is her obvious importance? she has done nothing important for the island.
I wouldn’t say nothing important… she’s provided some nice eye candy.
I thought he was surprised but not pleasantly. More like, “WTF? I better keep an eye on this one.”
Yeah, everyone else appears to have actually chosen to join him.
Didn’t it feel like Kate knew he wasn’t Locke, just like Sayid knew it, and Claire knew it, and Sawyer knew it? Did anybody else feel like Kate saw something “beautiful” in the black smoke monster as it passed by “the hole” that she was in with Claire. They both sorta stared up at it with their eyes gleaming. What did they see? Flashes before their eyes of something hopeful? Maybe the same thing John Locke originally saw back in S1?
Yes, she definitely saw something awe inspiring when she looked up. Claire was just delusional, presumably seeing what she wanted to see.
Dogen btw described smokey as taking the form of someone you knew that had died. So it sounds like he didn’t know he was stuck in Locke’s body yet either.
Why didn’t Smokey kill Dogen when he was waiting for Sayid outside the temple grounds? Unless that’s against the rules too.
The whole reason smokey was able to come in was because Dogen had been killed.
Yes, which is why I asked about Dogen being outside the temple grounds.
a-she was still hooked on Claire
b-she doesn’t really know what is going on
c-where else would she go? If all you see is carnage, and the people you happen to be with are responsible for that carnage, and there is no one else around, then, yeah, I want to see what happens and think about a plan, rather than risk death by running off by myself. Kate is pretty smart, she won’t make a random move, she’ll come up with a plan, when she gets over the fact that she is following three zombies.
Yeah, she seemed to be tagging along just because it seemed logical… imo she didn’t at all seem to be joining team smokey and I’m not even all that sure how aware she was that they were directly responsible for the carnage.
Does anyone know where I can find the preview for next week’s ep that aired right after this one? I had to watch it after the fact and don’t have that…
Wow, Naveen showed his acting chops in this one finally!!
And Locke, those eyes….. TOQ is awesome!
Sayid and Locke together is a lethal partnership, and so it begins!
you’re hot
win.
LOLOLOLOL!!!!
Best comment thread ever.
hahahahahahahaha
Yes indeed. Smokin’ hot!
girls tend to get hotter the more willing they are to take racy pictures of themselves.
You’re pretty Smokin’ hot yourself!
phahahahahahahahahaha
Sorry, but I’ve always thought this… and tonight’s episode proves it… that Naveen Andrews is ok at playing a bad-ass Iraqi – his fight scene with Dogen was cool – but he hams it up way too much when the director tells him it’s an emotional scene. I can’t stand “vulnerable” Sayid and his quivering eyebrows!
Personally I find ridiculous how this season is unfolding. We are basically watching x-men episodes with parallel stories that make no sense at all. I mean, what does it matter who they bump into during their alternative/parallel lives? I’m finding hard to get invested into a whole new timeline in the lives of this characters.
Before you start attacking me, I want to say that I really hope I regret writing this lines one day. I mean, I have invested as much time and hopes as the most hardcore fans in this show. Right now, it is disappointing to see a guy forming an army for a final battle between evil and good…
Well, I think what matters is this reinforced sense that character is destiny–even in another universe, with a second or third chance, the key aspects still unfold the same. Some are slightly happier, they fight and kill each other…but it only ends once. Everything until then is progress.
The x line does reinforce how primary the story on the island is–how much more compelling that version of what happens is to us, despite the carnage and torment.
I totally get your frustration. LOST has always involved characters forming allegiances and “teams.” This season is just taking it up a notch by centering it around the definitive forces of good and evil (TBD). Charles Widmore eluded to as much back in “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham” when he told Locke there was a war coming. Hell, if you consider all the game metaphors the show throws at us, choosing sides has been essential to the plotting since Locke explained the basics of backgammon to a curious Walt.
Who can’t see the connections between flash sideaways and the real storyline is probably blind and um … I don’t know how someone could even like Lost if you don’t understand the connection between flashes and real storyline (I am talking about all seasons). But I guess some people just want dumbass non-important storylines.
I can completely see the connections you are so fond about. They made sense in flashbacks and flasforwards because it was the same guy evolving and changing due to experiences. Thats called growing as a person and maturing. But this characters in the sideways history have been influenced by a completely different set of experiences. Some may be extrapolated to the first timeline? Hell yeah! But what do I care if Nadia married Sayid’s brother in an alternate timeline or parallel universe? Thats the other Sayid’s problem, maybe if we had 5 more seasons I could get invested in the infinite internal struggle he had to overcome to let the love of his live marry his brother. But we have 10 episodes left, I want to know what was the point of the others and dharma initiative and building up those mysteries if the end game was a black monster recruiting soldiers for an apocalypse fight.
Well the “reality” is that the point of building up all those mysteries was to keep you watching the show until it’s over. All the questions you or anyone else has will either be answered, answered “enough”, left vague or be completely ignored by the end of this season. Why do the Dharma Initiative and the Others speak in vagaries? To tease the viewer, I don’t think it needs to be more complicated than that. (If you want to wax philosophical one could argue that the reason why they are so indirect in their speech is because the only two people who actually know ANYTHING on the show are Jacob and the guy who killed him – even Richard was revealed to be in the dark about Jacob’s Master Plan. Besides even if the DI or the Others spoke more directly could we trust what they say? Can we even trust Jacob?) I really wish ABC and even the producers to an extent would stop banging on about how “the answers are coming” before every single episode. YES the answers are coming but it’d be a hell of a lot more accurate to say “The answers are coming…eventually.” I think that would help people properly adjust their expectations for each individual episode.
I understand what you’re saying in regards to the off island stuff because without a proper context to frame the flash sideways stories they just seem like pointless “What if?” exercises. I think that the off island 2004 stuff happens AFTER the on island Light vs. Dark war (and it is light vs. dark, not good vs. evil – do we really know if Jacob is what we would consider good? Sure Dogen calls Locke “pure evil” but why should we listen to him? Of course he thinks that! He’s on team Jacob! Locke gives everyone answers and is direct with them whereas the supposed good guys are vague and never reveal pertinent information. Lots of shades of gray in there). Locke said to Sayid in so many words that he could be reunited with Nadia…well wasn’t he with her in the episode we just watched? Sure, they weren’t married but she was still alive and Sayid (until he killed Keamey) seemed like a better adjusted version of himself. What if the flash sideways are each character’s “reward” so to speak for their part in the Game that’s being played on the island? I don’t think “good” or “dark” will triumph over “evil” or “light”, I think the Island has always, and will always need balance, which is why over ambitious types like Ben and Widmore are actually bad for the Island even though they only wish to protect it. Right now the balance is way off and there will be dire consequences if it isn’t restored. Anyone else think Jack is ripe for a Christ like sacrifice? Jack vs. Locke, just like old times as Hurley would say.
To that end, do we really know if that the jughead detonation worked in the way Faraday proposed it would? What if it didn’t? What if the Island ended up on the bottom of the ocean by some other means…perhaps by…oh I don’t know some apocalyptic war?! It’s just a thought but it’s the way I’ve been watching the flash sideways adventures and it makes them more relevant/enjoyable to me. The only thing I’d recommend for you, sebastian81 would be to find some way to enjoy the flash sideways until it’s over and it either makes sense in the context of the show or it’s revealed that they really are just “hey what if this happened instead of that?! Isn’t it whacky and similar?!” I think it’ll be deeper and more substantial than that but it could just be the writers telling us that no matter what happened these people, not characters, would have been a part of each others lives in some way. That they are all fated to be intertwined and there is no force on earth, supernatural or otherwise that could render them apart. Would I prefer that? Nope, but I could probably accept it.
Shit, I always do this. Apologies on the length. That’s borderline unreadable with the line spacing the way it is.
Sorry sebastian, I was just trying to answer some of your questions/assuage your fears. Aw, well.
I understand what you are saying. I love the show but hey, I’m not looking for answers to questions like “who is the woman on the portrait in Ben’s room?” or stuff like that. I’m talking about bigger narrative structure questions. it seems they wiped off everything that happened before season 3. The smoke monster could have killed all the losties it didn’t need in season 1 for that matter. I want the story to be cohesive and not to leave massive plot holes specially from the first few seasons. I’m not asking for much. Seeing the smoke monster get in the temple, kill 30 people and then have locke garner this satanic crew feels over the top. you can switch alliances and there is bad and good, but like that? really?
Finally, I hope the smoke monster objective is not simply killing everyone on the island cause if it is, he is the dumbest smoke monster on the history of smoke monsters. given that he could’ve done that by now.
“The smoke monster could have killed all the losties it didn’t need in season 1 for that matter. I want the story to be cohesive and not to leave massive plot holes”
I’ll answer that, mostly with speculation: no, he actually couldn’t kill them. He can’t kill candidates. But he can indirectly cause their deaths, and tried many times, sometimes successfully. He removed Shannon by tricking her into running at the trigger-happy Tailies. He got rid of Nikki and Paulo by paralyzing them and letting the Losties do the rest. He *tried* to get Hurley to jump off a cliff.
Non-candidates, he had free reign over.
I agree with Ryan’s post. We are already seeing the ending in the flash sideways timeline. We saw the island under water during the LAX episode. I think that the ‘war’ between ‘good’ & ‘evil’ ultimately destroys the island and with it that timeline. So what’s left is the alternate timeline. Remember that we’ve already been told that “what’s happened, happened”, but according to Faraday any variables could cause a different reality.
Eko
i do believe we’ll find out…. so far it has been so confusing
yet to be revealed fellas
I think we are looking at the sideway flashes from the wrong perspective. what if the flash sideways are the unbranched timeline and all the island antics are the true flash sideways. that the signifigance of these sideway flashes are that they are reality and the island is not.
Why is nobody stating the OBVIOUS?
Flocke’s ‘team’ has been telegraphed since The Last Supper photo shoot!!!
Take a look at who’s on his RIGHT (our LEFT) in the main shot.
Exactly.
And Jack will be his nemesis/Judas, with His Disciples fighting for ‘Jacob’s’ will.
there were several versions of this released, and the positions shift. most notably, claire and miles switch seats: http://catholickermit.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/lost-supperbig1.jpg, http://www.comicbookdaily.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/LastSupper_Lost-2.jpg, http://ncjl.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/lost-the-last-supper-3.jpg
I know! Right? Finally, there’s somebody else clinging onto basing the LOST supper(s)as to what will happen on the show. I’m still hanging onto my own theory as to why there are 3, but maybe it’s just that one won’t give as much as they’d want to depict.
I noticed that too – except that Kate would be the one in the Judas spot (http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=bidonica.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F2ls8p77.jpg) which makes sense since she seems to follow Flocke but… she doesn’t look really *with* him. Anyway, if the last supper photo is really a prediction of what’s to come, I find it interesting that Richard and Ilana seem to be at Flocke’s right.
‘Telegraphed’?
Jack’s a doofus.
Ilana’s on his right, and she’s clearly working for Jacob, with her Statue riddles and things like that. And Richard just RAN AWAY from him and had a big meltdown about it. Maybe they’re infiltrators or something? Hmmm… I don’t see Ben and Jack on the same side either. PLus, there’s three pictures and Miles and Claire switch spots in one of them.
That was Claire, the song she sang Aaron. Thats why she was singing it in the pit when Kate walked in.
I found the episode slightly disappointing after all the adverts says “there will be answers” and them not showing much, it made the episdoe seem better than it acutal is.
I’m pretty sure there was nothing that blatantly said it was Shannon he was referring to. Unless you have the hard answer, I suggest not killing someone’s article. Whether Doc was just speaking his opinion of who he thought it was, or whether he thought it was fact….well no one knows. So in the end what’s it matter?
nadia died in his arms too, fart monster. chill.
Are you stupid? There is nothing definitive about it being Shannon. They both died in his arms, pay attention before commenting, kthxbai!
I just love that people are taking anything a guy who calls himself “fart monster” says seriously.
Not to mention why would it be Shannon, whom he only knew for a matter of weeks? I guess Nadia’s being IN the damned episode wasn’t a clue regarding who he was talking about at all, was it?
Oh and btdubbs, there’s quite a difference between ‘La Mer’ and ‘Catch a Falling Star’..open ya ears Fart.
I’m with Rooky… a lot happened but nothing happened. It stalled me with a slightly bad taste in my mouth for LOST this week. I’m sure it will be remedied in the weeks to come but I like Sayid too much (the good in him) to have enjoyed watching him go all Vader on the temple folks. I just hope Jacob really was doing something to the water in ‘Lighthouse’… I was just getting invested in Dogen.
Again, that wasn’t Rousseau’s music–it was “Catch a Falling Star,” the song Claire sang to Aaron, and that her father sang to Claire. Rousseau’s song was a different one entirely.
I have no sympathy for the temple others. And I shed no tears for their demise. They have shown they are willingly to murder and harm a person who doesn’t serve a purpose in whatever grand scheme they running.
Dogen was ready to murder the Losties when they first came to the temple without blinking an eye. It wasn’t until after Hurley told him that Jacob sent them that he gave a damn.
No kidding. And all with that Temple righteousness–we’re the good guys, you peons (who we’re about to murder and torture) are evil. Was thrilled to see Sayid slit Lennon’s condescending throat.
How did you guys pick up that it was Dogen’s presence keeping Smokey out of the temple? (I must have missed this.) What happened to the ring of ash?
I don’t get it either, but Lennon said it….right before Sayid killed him.
I’ll have to rewatch that scene– thanks, bps!
The 4-eyed hippie mentioned it just before Sayid slit his throat. Called him an idiot, guess that set Sayid off a bit! lol
The ring of ash is still there but it seems it really served no purpose without Dogen being alive. Kinda odd.
i don’t think sayid meant. nadia or shannon.. but love.
the exact quote was “the only thing i ever wanted died in my arms, and i’ll never see IT again”
i think he defff meant love
either shannon or nadia…
I agree good point although Nadia didn’t die in his arms she died facing the ground on the highway.
I didn’t realize evil Sayid was so poetical.
I agree. You don’t refer to the love of your life as “it.”
So a lot of webposts this season are really bothering me:
1) We’ve spent five years watching a show that repeatedly emphasizes the false dichotomy between good vs. evil and riffs on “Star Wars” and Stephen King. And yet some are critical that the show is turning into a simple good vs. evil conflict and just stealing plot lines from “Star Wars” and Stephen King. Which it clearly is not (or, alternately, has been doing since season 1 and you failed to notice?).
2) We’ve spent five years watching our characters shift alliances and teams. And now some are critical because – holy crap! – our characters are continuing to shift alliances and teams.
3) We’ve spent five years watching a show where every mystery gets answered only to be left with further mysteries and questions. And now some are critical because every answer leaves us with further mysteries and questions.
4) We’ve spent five years watching a show with oddles and oddles of ambiguities. And yet some are critical because this season has ambigious moments (was Sayid referring to Shannon or Nadia? Of course that’s been left for us to puzzle over!)
5) We’ve spent five years watching a show where the writers have pulled off some amazing and non-conventional/non-linear narrative techniques. And now some are critical because the writers are using non-conventional/non-linear narraritive techniques.
Maybe I’m getting old but – damn! – every message board has these posters who don’t seem to have watched a single episode of the show and are furious the characters aren’t standing around reciting answers to every pet mystery since the pilot episode. I think it must have something to do with the psychology behind the “final season” phenomenom or something, but jeez – enjoy, savor and trust the team that’s steered us through five years of crazy TV juiciness. Rant over.
Speaking of Star Wars it will end the same way, Luke(jack) will destroy the Empire(Flockes’ gang) almost single handedly. Han(Sawyer) will come in at the end to defend Luke(jack) while beside Han(sawyer) will be his faithful companion Chewy(kate). Now we all know Chewy likes Luke but not in that way, not like he likes Han. It’s funny but imo will happen, Jack will be the hero Sawyer will help, Chewy will end up sticking with Sawyer.
LOL @ Kate as Chewie…I wanna see a scene with Kate saying “Awrawrawrrrr!”
She’s already ripped Juliet’s arm off. (sort of)
That would be E-P-I-C! haha!
I think Hurley is supposed to be Chewy and Kate Leia, but yeah funny to think about Kate as Chewy.
It will be Katebacca and Han Sawyer 4eva.
Lando Sayidian, Flocke Vader, Obi Wan Jacobi, Sun3PO, R2Jin2 hahaha
…and now we have Lando(Sayid) in the mix where himself and Han(Sawyer) have their problems, but hey guys will be guys. Lando of course sells out to Vader(Flocke) instead of just Han in this scenario it’s all of them. When the scale is about to tip to the Darkside of the force(evil/black) we have our only hope come out of his daddy issue caccoon and arises a jedi(a jacobi). Luke(jack) finally pulls it together to save the day…again with his faithful companion C-3PO/R2D2(Hurley – comic relief) by his side they save the day. At the end we’ll see Vader(Flocke), Obi(Jacob), and Ben(Yoda) as blue ghosts watching as they celebrate their victory over the island and all the Ewoks(Temple Survivors) are dancing and singing. Lost is Star Wars….and Jabba is played by claire’s hair because their both cruel and disgusting.
hahahahahahah
Your position is taken under consideration but they also have a point. Hopefully things aren’t as obvious as they appear to be right now.
thank you so much Ejoiner – finally! quit the whining everyone!
whiners=NON-LOST FANS
NO thank you, Ejoiner. And what you call “whiners”, does not = NOT LOST FANS. You can be a fan of something, and not agree with it wholeheartedly or find faults with it. For example: last year the Detroit Lions didn’t win a single game. The players played awful and the team was managed terribly from top to bottom, but they still have diehard fans who will always be Lions fans.(I know alot of you might not know much about sports, but you get the comparison.)
Now I love Lost, but I have found alot of faults and mistakes with the writing in later seasons especially, but also with the direction of the show. Does this mean I’m not a fan? No. I still watch every week, and I still really enjoy the show (just not as much as the first 4 seasons.) These message boards are designed for people to discuss the show and voice their opinions, positive or negative. Now from time to time, I myself post a somewhat negative post about the show’s writers mistakes and such, and I would like to know how other’s feel about the topic as well, but almost all the time I am bombarded by posts along the lines of “How dare you question the almighty writers and producers of Lost!? Blasphemer! You should be stoned!”
Now C’mon, just because you don’t agree with Ethan’s timeline (wrinliest 27 year old I ever saw), or with EVERYTHING that happened with Michael off-island, does the mean you’re not a fan? Or maybe these things just don’t make any sense and could have easily been fixed by the writers and as a devoted fan you have a right to question these things? All I’m saying is that EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion; and even you diehard fans who would die on the cross for Carlton & Damon have gotta admit the show is far from perfect, but we all love it and have our own ideas and opinions.
Btw; everytime I have posted something about writer’s continuity mistakes and asked for someone to come up with a reasonable explanation, they never could. The “best” answers people would come up with were “check the lost timeline on Lostapedia”, and I would, and I still didn’t make sense.
I’m not saying that anyone critical of the show is snot a fan – I’m just saying that there are fans posting extremely negative criticisms of the show while the writers are only doing the same thing they started in season 1. I don’t like every episode either – I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion (duh!) and I’m just expressing mine: you can’t say Lost sucks now because its doing the same thing its done for the past five years!
I think I’m feeling the same way as ejoiner here, but I don’t see it as referring to the kinds of criticism you mention. I think it’s directed to the seemingly large number of fans who are complaining that the show isn’t moving fast enough or we aren’t getting any answers. To those I say be patient and keep your eyes open. It seems to me that we’re getting a crud-load of answers and more or less in the same fashion we’ve always gotten them since the very beginning of the series! Why are we all of a sudden disappointed in that?
I agree. There are going to be fans who like the show no matter what and those fans should be dismissed completely because they have thrown out all objectivity.
If you don’t show a zombie like devotion to a show they accuse you of either not being a true fan or so dense you just don’t get it.
If the webposts are bothering you, then don’t read them and leave others to their own opinions and discussions.
But if we only read/replied to opinions we agreed with it wouldn’t be much of a “discussion” board now would it?
If the episodes are bothering you, then don’t watch them and leave fans to their own opinions and discussions.
You’re an idiot.
Of course he was talking about Nadia. Why anyone would think it was Shannon is beyond me.
But that’s just it. We’ve had 5 years of questions of ambiguities and we’ve sat through 5 years in the hope of some answers at the end. Enough already and give us some freaking answers. Like Sayid said.
I believe an answer was solved when Dogen went over the torture process and what he was looking for, Sayid leaned towards the evil side meaning it’s not an actual “infection” but a choice within them and it can only be seen through either fear, anger, or pain. Sayid leaned towards the dark side when Dogen put him through this.
Dogen had a chance to kill but chose not too
That’s a very convenient definition of evil. Evil is because you want to kill me; but me torturing you is good.
I don’t know, I feel like this whole season so far has been very light on real answers.
Testing for good and evil with electric shock? Dogen puts electrodes on Sayid and shocks him, then burns him. I didn’t see any kind of reaction out of Sayid that anybody else wouldn’t have made if that happened to him. Do good people squeal louder?
dude, it S-A-Y-I-D.
Are you watching the same show as me? Nadia has always been Sayids true love and I dont believe Shanon ever sang that song “Catch a falling star”, we have seen claire and kate sing it.
We heard Claire sing it a couple times in this very episode
Absolutely. Sayid loved Nadia, not Shannon. I can’t see why anyone would think otherwise.
This episode had at least FIVE stunning moments of violence:
1) The opening fight
2) Sayid stabbing Locke with no apprehension (and to no avail)
3) Sayid shooting Keamy right in the eggs
4) Sayid drowning Dogen and then BRUTALLY slicing Lennon’s throat
5) Smokey destroying the Temple (which included that amazing shot of Smokey rushing over Claire and Kate, with living bodies still caught up in it.
Viscerally and brutally excellent!
A brutal episode! Speaking of Smokey rushing over Claire and Kate and the pit…that was messed up! But what is the significance (and we’ve heard it before) of the sound effects? You could clearly hear the sound of a train speeding over tracks!
I’ve been wondering about the sounds Smokey emits for 5 years now. I truly believe there is a signifigance to it. Perhaps it will be something in the tangent universe…
Cap10, the smoke monster’s sound is a recording of the register receipt machine from a N.Y. taxi. The show peeps just thought it was a cool sound. No significance, at least when they decided to use it.
Thanks for the info. Never heard that. That would be a bit disappointing, as I’ve analyzed that a dozen times. Maybe Smokey’s a cab driver in the flash sideways. “You talkin to me?”
Sounds like the Donkey Wheel and Lighthouse Wheel too. You also hear that sound during switches of Sideways© Lost and Lost Lost.
SPeaking of taxi drivers, did anyone think that the voice of the taxi driver in the LA timeline sounded exactly like Lapidus? We listened to it several times, and although they didn’t show the face of the cab driver, it sure sounded like Lapidus’s voice!
Yep, it was a blood pumping show in more ways than one.
6) Sayid’s smile at Ben after slicing up Lennon – PRICELESS!
Sayid is NOT talking about Shannon! Think about the timeline! Sayid and Nadia had a thing sometime prior to the crash (in 9/2004) and he was going to L.A. to find her – Nadia. He hooks up with Shannon on the island, after the crash, in late 2004. He’s with Shannon for what, a couple weeks tops before she’s killed? So, the Oceanic 6 make their way home, Sayid finds Nadia, marries her, then watches her die in his arms (thanks Jacob?!) This happens presumably in 2005. Three years later, the survivors make their way back to the island.
The song? The one Shannon sang was ‘Under the Sea’, from the French dub of the movie ‘Nemo’ – in FRENCH!
‘Catch a falling star’…Claire would sing that, and as someone mentioned, she had said her father sang it to her when she was little. I believe Kate also sang it to Aaron before…
Definitely Nadia…NOT Shannon.
So did Nadia. I’m starting to get the feeling you haven’t seen the whole series.
Lol, you are clueless. They BOTH died in his arms, so it could be either but more than likely it’s Nadie as she was his one true love.
Release some of that hot air in your head before speaking like you know what’s going on.
They BOTH died in his arms, and it could just be a figure of speech regardless… Anyhow, it’s getting smelly in here.
Its like The Stand. Choosing sides.
“You must choose. But choose wisely, for while the true Grail will bring you life, the false Grail will take it from you.” Had to throw that in there.
the last crusade!
You better believe it happy crappy! Ben’s the trashcan man!
It’s interesting that no one is meantioning Keamy or Jin in the kitchen scene with Sayid and the mobsters. Isn’t that the same kitchen where Miles was recruited by Naomi? It looked familiar. And weren’t you hoping you would see John and Helen outside next to Nadia’s house?
Honestly, my brain is getting too tired to put all these things together. Thank goodness for all your theories and comments. The only negative thing I have to say is poor Sun. She’s so close to seeing Jin. ANd they gave her such a silly line. The whole Lapidis, Alana, Sun and Ben tribe surely looks like a scene in a video game with them coming around a wall in the temple. Hats off to Sayid. Great episode for him but something definitely off for me…looking too much like a video game…
“You stab me in my chest and don’t even say hello?” -Flocke
Man, that was a good episode for Naveen Andrews! Sayid was a tortured soul who then became empowered.
Seeing Keamy was cool, that dude is a good actor. Too bad Sayid shot his ass dead!
Correction to the thought that the water revived Sayid.
The water DIDN’T heal Sayid. Just as Claire was brought back by the smoke monster after the building fell on her at the Others’ camp. Remember, after Jacob’s death the water changed color, it couldn’t even heal Dogen’s hand, although he still made the effort to heal Sayid.
The water won’t heal Dogen or anyone else any more.
If people come back because the monster somehow inhabits them, as it also now appears he did with Christian, it won’t have anything to do with the fountain.
Has anyone acknowledged why Henry Ian Cusick is still being listed as a main cast member in Season 6? It was previously reported that he would not be a regular this season, and the ABC press releases don’t list him as a regular either…but his name’s there in the opening credits every week. Just wondered if anyone knew what was up?
Just an educated guess, but I have a feeling Des will be used more later. His story probably has a lot to do with major answers.
Absolutely, So far my impression of this whole season so far is one huge “Flashes Before Your Eyes” episode which was about Desmond and what happened to him after the explosion/implosion. Except Desmond knew after just a short while he knew, our Losties are having a hard time finding their way.
Just a side note I just watched the scene with Des in Widmore’s office. They show a painting of a polar bear attacking an upside down statue clearly on his right side, then at the next cut the painting is reversed and on his left side…which would be a mirror image. yes over-analyzing but after seeing it, you can’t help but not see it. S3 “Flashes Before Your Eyes”.
I didn’t realize till this episode that the bomb took them from the 70s to the present day with the other Losties.
Another thing, who else got happy when they saw jack in the hospital as one of the “Side doctors” while Sayid and Nadiya were rushing in to see Omar?
Everyone except for Rose and Bernie the cave skeles.
You really pay attention don’t you?
I mean Hurley telling Dogen that Jacob was dead and then Dogen setting off the flare that Richard saw foam the beach didn’t tip you off huh?
Pretty sweet that Claires fortuneteller was right about things going to hell if someone else raised Aaron. She probably wouldn’t be so nuts if Aaron was just left on the island with her.
yeah, except that when Sawyer found Aaron, Claire was nowhere in sight. Now we know it all ended up in a big mess, but back then the Losties had no way to know that Claire had been lured away by Smokey. It was all a big con to make the O6 take Aaron with them and therefore easily win Claire to the dark side.
I thought it was an excellent episode. However, there is one thing that I am curious about. When Claire told Dogen that fake-Locke wanted to talk to him, he responded that fake-Locke would kill him if he stepped out. She replied by telling him to send someone that he wouldn’t kill. I can only assume this to be Sayid (since he is a candidate) for the purposes of last night’s episode because Jack and Hurley were nowhere to be found (at the lighthouse). Dogen then gave Sayid a knife with instructions to kill fake-Locke as soon as he saw him and not to even let him speak.
As we all know, Locke stepped out, said two words and Sayid plunged the knife into his chest, with no effect. Upon returning Sayid speculated that Dogen sent him in the hopes that fake-Locke would kill him.
My dilemna: If Dogen sent Sayid knowing that he couldn’t kill fake-Locke and fake-Locke wouldn’t kill Sayid, then why did he send him? Is it possible that the two words spoken by fake-Locke were enough to put Sayid in a hypnotic trance making him only think that he plunged the knife into fake-Locke’s chest?
if anything the words spoken by Flocke sealed Sayid’s doom, but given Flocke’s “smoky” nature and the fact that Bram’s bullet did no damage I would guess that Sayid did in fact stab FLocke.
Then that begs the question: Why did Dogen send Sayid (or anyone for that matter)? I seriously doubt that what Sayid did after that was according to his plan. Jacob’s? Maybe, but certainly not Dogen’s.
Because Dogen thought that Flocke would kill Sayid when he stabbed him. Flocke even said something to the effect of this isn’t the first time he (Dogen) has had someone try to kill you.
I’m not so sure. I thought Flocke wasn’t allowed to kill the candidates. Don’t they keep saying that it’s against the rules?
Bugs- why do Nadia and Sayid’s bro have an oh-so-blonde daughter??
It’s easy. Kate is following along with Locke and his merry band because she is trying to save Claire and because she wants to survive. She’s going to try to escape with Claire when she thinks possible. of course that’s going to be difficult, seeing as Claire wants nothing but Kate’s certain death.
Kate had better watch her back! Do you think Smokey is happy that Kate could expose his lie about Aaron to Claire? I think not.
Anyone familiar with the Charles Beaumont short story “The Howling Man”? Could the whole series be based on this story?
J
Anyone familiar with the Charles Beaumont short story “The Howling Man”? Could the whole series be based on this story?
(#17)
Where are Sawyer and Jin?
I was wondering that myself. Claire mentions them before she goes into the temple, asking Flocke “why can’t Jin or Sawyer go?”. I assume Jin is still immoble and laid up in the tent where we last saw him. But sawyer is a mystery. I doubt smokey left him in the cave, but then how did he get back up the cliffside with two broken ladders? and if he did, does smokey have him running a side mission, or is he just hanging out?
The Island portions were great, as usual.
At the very end, the first thing I said was, “ENOUGH with the alterna-universe hoo-hah already.”
I’m playing along (get it? “playing” along?) but my patience for that whole irrelevant storyline is wearing thin. It’s not the resolution of anything we’ve seen, it’s totally random.
And if the people who say the “alternate” universe is, in effect, a flash-forward to what happens “after” the Island storyline? Holy crow, I will be so angry I wasted all these years.
As for the Shannon/Nadia debate, I think he’s talking about Nadia, but will probably be given Shannon. I kinda hope it’s Shannon, actually. I don’t think Sayid has a currently living ex and it’s been six seasons. Ouchie.
I don’t know if Kate’s really with Mocke, but if Sawyer’s with him then she probably will be too. I hope she gets out of there though personally. And for the first time ever, I want to see more Jack. And I want to see Faraday, I don’t care how they bring him back. They just have to.
*begs Darlton to bring Faraday back* lol
OK, lots of people saying it’s stupid that Flocke is only now killing people when he could have been doing it all along. And other people arguing that he couldn’t kill candidates. Here’s my argument.
The Man in Black couldn’t really do a lot of his own volition before Jacob was killed. He had to follow Jacob’s orders most of the time too. Think about when he was disguised as Christian Shephard in the cabin, and he told Locke to move the island. This was clearly to protect the island from outside intruders, right? This is something that Jacob would want. He said he wasn’t Jacob, but he could “speak for him”.
Of course, we also have to remember that he’s sneakily trying to hatch his master plan of “kill Jacob and …” that we don’t know all of yet. While he has to follow along with Jacob’s wishes, anything Jacob didn’t directly forbid was fair game. So yes, he didn’t attack the 815ers the first night because there was a large number of candidates in amongst the group. But he’s been planning this for awhile. I mean, whose idea was it to bring back Locke’s body on Ajira 316? Whoever decided on that one really messed up, because it brought about Jacob’s death. I would argue that the Man in Black somehow got the idea in someone’s head. How? I dunno. But it would just make sense.
Ben. It was Ben who first said they had to bring Locke’s body back to the island; but remember that Eloise Hawking also said it was super important!
also, while the island was jumping through time, Flocke told Richard to tell injured locke that he would have to die to convince the oceanic six to return to the island, but instead it was for smokey to grab john’s facade. also, Christian( aka smokey) told locke he would have to die just before Locke turned the frozen donkey wheel. “that’s why they call it a sacrifice” -christian
Ellie and Ben believed it was important because they were recreating 815 with Christian’s body. So somehow, Locke’s dead body was superior to Christian’s, since Christian was mostly trapped in the cabin, and the bottom of the well by the donkey wheel.
Makes me think back to Ellie’s concern that they needed to return because otherwise “heaven help us all.” (Was the problem that candidate Sawyer was still in 1977, or that Sayid needed to shoot Ben, or Faraday needed to be killed by his mother?)
But I agree it’s odd, when 316 returning with the candidates is what led to Jacob’s death and Smokey’s embodiment.
Remember the first episode of tis season.sawyer asked miles to find out what she was trying to tell sawyer!IT WORKED.That’s what the flash sideways are,how it would be if the plane never crashed.
I mean what juliet was trying to tell him before she died.
I’ve wondered about the “Howling Man” for awhile. That would explain some. It would also converge how Jacob points out people have a choice, and how Flocke gets people to make an evil choice.
Wondered when someone would notice Sawyer/ford was missing, going home, stuck in the grotto?
Why out of everyone was Ilana given the knowledge of who Flocke is, and how he works? She knew he is stuck, her people were prepared to meet him but didin’t work it wisely. It shows he has a limitation, too. Their defense reminds me of the defense for a golem, you have to pour dirt around you from the same earth the golem was made.
And in the so called flash sideways…Jack has a son, who is older than the original 815 trip. So did the sideways change things before the flight as well, or does Jack have a son we have not seen?