[...]Time Travel For Dummies DocArzt's LOST Blog[...]…

It’s like, “Oooh, there’s a problem. This episode indicates that Danielle knew Jin prior to the 815 crash!”

Why say it’s a paradox, when any mundane explanation would suffice.

Anytime I run into someone I met years ago that doesn’t recognize me, I am much more apt to assume a mundane explanation as opposed to think the universe is about to implode.

I just have one teeny weeny observation.

“Expecting Danielle to recognize Jin after 16 years assumes he doesn’t time jump away five minutes into next week’s episode. ….”

I don’t know about that. Remembering someone you see for a brief moment in time (if he does indeed jump away soonish) after being mostly alone on an island for 16 years would make you recognize anyone you had seen in that span of time- simply because you wouldn’t have other faces to confuse things with. But… Danielle is hardly stable. She is *petrified* of Smokey and the people who took her baby away from her. She might recognize Jin and then not trust herself- not trust what she saw later as real. Certainly that would explain why she stuck to the background whenever Jin was around…

Sorry. I tend to focus on really insignificant parts of the bigger picture.

Regarding your question:

There are two perspectives operating on the show now. That of the O6, which is shared by the rest of the world, and that of the Left Behinders, who are jumping through time on the Island.

To the O6, three years have passed since Ben turned the wheel, so to them it is 2007.

To the Left Behinders a much smaller time has passed since Ben turned the wheel. They have accrued a certain amount of time. We don’t know exactly how much time, but we can guess it’s been about a day or two.

The important thing to keep in mind is there is no correlation between the LBs and the O6. It is entirely an editorial choice which events to display when. In other words there is no universal clock for the two groups. It is not as if when Jin arrived on shore with Danielle on the Island, the O6 were simultaneously meeting at the marina with Ben. These events are shown concurrently in the episode, but that is just an editorial choice. Jin and the French team arrived on the Island in 1988. Chronologically speaking this event took place 19 years before Ben told Kate that he was the one behind the custody suit.

The answer to your question about the difference between the O6′s clock and the LB’s clock will have to wait until the two are brought together and they can compare clocks.

I will tell you this, it is much more likely that the O6′s clock will be ahead of the LB’s clock by a significant amount, but that is ultimately in Darlton’s hands.

I would tend to think that you are right, that when the two groups are finally reunited Sawyer will probably ask who the little boy is and will be shocked that he is ‘baby’ Aaron.

I don’t see why people thought you were being condescending or arrogant. I thought your post made total sense and it really helped me a lot to understanding this whole season, which I’m loving every minute of.

I do have a question that’s been plagueing me more than all the others, and it may sound silly but I just need a clear and simple answer if anyone can help me.

Although time is kind of relative now, what is the difference in time on the island vs. on land where the O6 are. I mean, I know the Left Behinder’s are jumping around so time is kind of relative but hours are still passing for them as people, just in the same way the hours are passing for the O6. So if it’s been 3 years for the O6, then how much time has gone by for the Left Behinders?

Another way to ask it is if there are approximately 8,766 hours in a year, then 26,298 hours have gone by for the O6 since they left the island. So how many hours have gone by for the Left Behinders. Judging by the way the show has been going, it only seems like it’s been a day or two since the Freighter blew up and Ben turned the FDW.

Are the events on the island supposed to be past events? Or am I to assume that they are happening concurrently with the O6 events? When the O6 come back, will we see the Left Behinder’s 3 years after all the things we’ve been seeing so far from them? Like, will they be 3 years older?

I know that was like 10 questions to really just ask the one. And as I said, it has been bugging me so please, someone help me.

Thanks again!

This assumes that Richard has his own compass in 1954, when Locke shows him his. It is a safe assumption because the compass would serve no purpose unless it had meaning to Richard in some way.

you can criticize them.

Daniel said the Island is like a record that is skipping. In this approach, the history of the Island is likened to the grove of the record, or the song, and the Left Behinders are represented by the needle. The time jumps are like the needle skipping to different parts of the song.

Here’s the point: The song doesn’t change. When a record skips, you get to hear different parts of the song, but this doesn’t mean the artist is rerecording the song every time the record skips.
What happened, happened.
You can’t change anything.

If the camera angle had been right, I’m sure we could have seen Sawyer hiding in the bushes.

he has raised very informative points, just as other comment-ers noted. and I myself believe that the science behind the show is not supposed to be complex; Lost ain’t shown on the Discovery channel. get what I mean?

on a final note, Lost is supposed to be a work of fiction. its just a show on TV for crying out loud. I know we’re all obsessed fans, but please, nobody needs to get all cranky and Einstein-y about it. let’s all enjoy it and get increasingly confused by it and make up wild theories about it.

Visual Effects and the confusions of “Modern” physics

r ——— Light sensing of moving objects ——- S
Actual object—– Light ——— Visual object
r – ——-cosine (wt) + i sine (wt) – S = r [cosine (wt) + i sine (wt)]
Newton– Kepler’s time visual effects — Time dependent Newton
Particle ————– Visual effects ——————– Wave

Line of Sight: r cosine wt

r ——————- r cosine (wt) line of sight light aberrations

A moving object with velocity v will be visualized by
light sensing through an angle (wt);w = constant and t= time
Also, sine wt = v/c; cosine wt = √ [1-sine² (wt) = √ [1-(v/c) ²]

A visual object moving with velocity v will be seen as S

S = r [cosine (wt) + i sine (wt)] = r Exp [i wt]; Exp = Exponential

S = r [√ [1-(v/c) ²] + ỉ (v/c)] = S x + i S y

S x = Visual along the line of sight = r [√ [1-(v/c) ²]

This Equation is special relativity length contraction formula
And it is just the visual effects caused by light aberrations of a
moving object along the line of sight.

In a right angled velocity triangle A B C: Angle A = wt; angle B = 90°; Angle C = 90° -wt
AB = hypotenuse = c; BC = opposite = v; CA= adjacent = c √ [1-(v/c) ²]

I think the answer to a lot of these seeming ‘paradoxes’ starts with the ideas of branching time, indeterminism, and realizing that Daniel’s little ‘rules’ aren’t really rules at all. Why didn’t Desmond remember Daniel’s message until 2008? Because in Desmond’s world, it didn’t HAPPEN ’til 2008. Why didn’t Rousseau remember Jin in 2005? Because their 1988 meeting didn’t happen in her world like, ever. She was already dead by the time it did.

A year ago, when we first met Daniel Faraday…seeing him not know why he was sobbing as he watched the fake 815 wreckage being broadcast on television…I posited the theory to a few friends that present day Daniel was sobbing because he has a suppressed memory of a past trauma that won’t occur until future Daniel travels back in time on the island. I know…it’s trippy and brain-bending and mind-melting. It’s also elegantly simple compared to so many of the paradox-avoidance theories I’m seeing.

I’m not sure if anyone has ever mentioned Arthur Prior in any of these forums etc…but if you read up a bit on him…you’ll find he was one of the first to strongly pursue the ideas of indeterminism and branching time theory in academia (though certainly not the first to put the idea forth). You’ll also find that he spent some time at Oxford(!)…where as part of the John Locke Lectures series(!) he presented a lecture on the topic of Time & Modality…in…1956(!!!).

Just some food for thought. Personally, I don’t think time travel equates to flashbacks…on *any* level.

And it’s pretty arrogant and stupid to tell people to go watch Grey’s Anatomy (e.g. horrible and boring) because the confusion level of Lost has been upped a notch. That’s like saying you are superior in some way to the rest of the Lost audience. Every viewer counts. Even though Lost is not going be cancelled, it doesn’t hurt even better ratings.

And your logic is a wee bit faulty.

A jump in time, going backwards, can’t equate to a flashback, for a simple reason. The reason for that is the same reason Einstein came up with the theory of relativity. Yep, that’s right, it’s all about your reference frame.

Like when Danielle & Co. found Jin in 1988. At that particular point in time, there are 2 Jins in the world. A younger one in Korea and a much older one on the island. Now, the way I see it, any flashback’s reference frame is the character’s birth date. So, effectively, the Jin we see is much older than he is supposed to be, if it were a proper flashback. In effect, Jin is interfering with the past. Because back in season 1, Rousseau’s distress message made no mention whatsoever of them rescuing a stranger at sea. So, indeed, it is legitimate to question the paradoxical nature of that encounter.

And it seems stupid for the writers to include time travel in the plot if they want us to just sit back and be all ~ “never mind all that sci-fi time travel stuff; it’s nothing more than flashbacks”..

Still though, it was a fair attempt at explaining things for those who might not be as savvy and I can appreciate that. Maybe watching a few episodes of Grey’s Anatomy would soothe you over?