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Posted by docarzt on Wednesday, April 8th, 2009 at 10:18 pm - filed under Lost News - (76) Comments
Want TV News? Visit TVOvermind.comOh. My. GAWD. I can hear the shouts of “best episode evah” echoing in the night. “Dead is Dead,” a Ben Centric episode, delivers answers, intrigue, and plot advancement – for the win! Read on to rate, and share your feelings in the comments. And of course, don’t forget to check out our live blog of the episode, this week courtesy of Triangulatedsignal!
Major learnings:
- Ben could have killed Penny, but he didn’t. Odds of Desmond returning to ensure safety for his family somewhere between natch and you bet your ass.
- Ben has been found not guilty by the island, but ordered to be John Locke’s chump.
- Is it just me, or is there something behind the fact that we never see John and Smokey in the same room?
- What is in the shadow of the statue? Indeed! So much for Caeser, you were a good villain for a while – but Illana and her freaking huge anvil case are in charge now.
- Widmore looked like a rockstar! Hey Chuck, Zepplin is looking for a new singer.
- Looks like Elle is definitely not Penny’s mom. That settles that. Widmore’s ‘banishment’ was a little less explosive than what I figured. Oh well, one can only handle so much excitement.
- More hieroglyphics. Sheesh. Hold the phone while I find an Egyptologist. In the meantime, did we see a depiction of a plane crash in that frame? Hmmmm….
Now, Smokey has done his judging… time for you to chime in…
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76 Responses to “Lost 5.12 – Dead is Dead – Rate and Rant”
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I can’t believe two people voted “worst episode ever.” What the hell???
I can’t believe so many people put Best Episode Ever. What the hell with that?! I will agree it’s not the worst, but it’s far, FAR from the best.
until ben met up w/ smokey i would have said below average to worst ever my self. The smokey scene was soooo B A it pulled it out of the gutter but only to a rating of good.
Caesar tried to be the man and got dealt with. hell yeah. Two things I dont like. 1. A jerk in charge 2. And even worse a bitch in charge. Cant wait to see Il-whoever get beat down.
Until there is an episode better than The Constant, there’ll never be another “best ever”.
i second you on that
I third(?) you on that!
Fourple!!!!
It’s the usual “5-star-rating”-dilemma… And I think, here, it’s “worsened” by the choice of wording in these polls.
There’s quite a long way from “Above average” to “Best episode ever” with nothing to fill in between them (and I actually think “Good” sounds higher in quality than “Above average”…)
This time, for the first time, I went with the exaggeration, like a lot of people seem to do, and voted “Best episode ever”, not because it actually was, but because it certainly wasn’t just “Above average” either.
For Lost, “best ever” is beginning to make less sense to me every week. Yes, “The Constant” is probably my favorite in terms of drama and (somewhat) storytelling, but “Flashes Before Your Eyes”, “Shape of Things to Come” and the season 2 finale rank pretty much exactly as high on other terms.
This became my “best ever” episode, most likely due to the interplay between Locke and Ben. I don’t recall a particular episode where I had this many “Damn!” moments. I.e. Ben ending Caesar, Locke taunting Ben about knowledge of things, Alex pwning Ben, Ben showing glimpses of humanity. I loved the “Flock of Seagulls” up-do for 80′s Ben. This was the payoff episode for me.
I have been waiting 5 years to say this……BEST EPISODE EVER!
Best. OMG soooooooooooooo cool. I like Locke in this… and of course I called the Ben stuff many many many times
. It’s nice to be vindicated. Say what you will, homicidal genocide or no… he’s a great dad! 
lol, that he is. I actually couldnt stand ben till the day he killed frieghter dude for killen alex. Ive considered him pretty cool ever since. Im glad he made it.
That episode blew my Mind Grapes.
This totally just blew my mind!!! Everything was great!! Except Widmore being banished for shacking up with an off island girl — Come on island, there isn’t much else to do off island…
he was also coming and going from the Island. So I guess he lied to Locke about being tricked into turning the Donkey Wheel by Ben.
Yeah!
Apparently Off-Island Booty Calls are a No-No.
Yeah, i wonder who is this women though that charles had a affair and daughter with. I wonder if it is someone important that we have met before or if it is someone they will never bring up again. I have a strong feeling its the former
The special effects were awful.
If you’re refering to the funny wigs they made Ben wear I agree!! he he… I never pay attention to special effects, they are always awful…
yeah – like, how old was ben supposed to be when he took alex?? he looked like he was the same age as he is now except he wore a groovy 80s wig. BUT – when did the purge happen in this timeline???? He seems to be an “Other” for at least part of his adult life…..
Yeah, the special effects in Star Wars sucks too.
god, seriously. they should’ve done quick flashbacks instead. that totally ruined the scene for me.
Yeah. I was totally with it until the smokey flashes. The way they did Eko’s was far better when it was sort of unclear what was being shown. I kinda think ABC was like, “Um… can you be more clear and show the actual footage?”
If they were unclear about what was being shown, we would never know for sure what Ben was being judged for. I thought the scene was perfect.
I think was different from Eko’s because we were actually seeing it from Ben’s perspective. We were seeing it from the 3rd person when Eko saw it.
I think it was perfect to. A flashback would have been kind of pointless because smokey showed ben things we have already seen before. Plus, by smokey doing what he did with the flashbacks we get to learn some more capabilities of smokey or rather comfirmed abilities we always thought he had (ie taking human form) Also i dont know about you guys but i totally thought alex was going to stab ben right through the chest with something.
Yeah, it was a really lame scene.
With extra cheese.
Image of the plane crash in the heiroglyphics? That would be awesome.
It was an eventful ep, but somewhat choppy in its execution. I had a hard time understanding middle-aged Charles, but that’s likely my problem.
Choppy? I didn’t think so. But it did feel sad, Ben probably not going back to be the supervillain anymore, and realizing how lonely he has been, and how he sacrificed his own daughter not to get away from his precious Island. And then… his last look at Locke, realizing that bald man wasn’t a clueless douche, but that he was ACTUALLY looking at The Messiah.
It felt like a sixth season episode. It felt like the end of an era.
I don’t remember any part that would lead me to believe either way that penny is ellie’s daughter. Where did you get that from?
I actually never believed that theory myself, so what you read above is my expression of relief.
Penny CAN’T be Ellie’s daughter. This episode revealed that Charles had a daughter with a woman not from the island. Ellis is from the island. That lays THAT theory to rest.
Charles could still be Daniel’s father though. Not that I’m really rooting for that.
I haven’t watched the episode yet so I have just been reading the generalities of peoples views about how good the episode was. This reminds me a lot of the reaction the constant got, but it is funny because out of 74 comments on Darks site I read about 4 or 5 people who hated it, saying acting was bad and cgi terrible. Well, it is TV so I am not holding my breath on the cgi front but thats no big deal, I have seen some pretty bad cgi on Lost already and it has done nothing to curb my excitement for Lost and I think that is just a generally lame thing to criticize about a story like lost where you have to have a suspension of disbelief. The biggest surprise was reading a few comments saying the acting was bad. I have been watching Emerson in different roles for sometime now and the one thing he is not is a bad actor even in lame movies.
What it comes down to is you are always going to get people who want attention and want to be heard so they are going to make wrong headed comments like that. I say screw ‘em and in the end ignore them. If they don’t want to enjoy a great story and all it’s beauty and foibles than they should be left to their misery while we enjoy a one of a kind experience called Lost!
Michael Emerson couldn’t have acted bad in this episode, not even on purpose. Every major thing (writing, directing and acting) was top notch. And Emerson was truly moving this time. It take a genius actor to convey genuine feelings and sincerity in a character that’s a pathological manipulator.
First thing I said after the episode ended is that Emerson as actually doing some bad acting. I did not believe the scene with him and Alex. He seemed sarcastic and not real.
i agree…everything else in the episode was great acting by emerson, but the scene with alex – he just seemed really insincere. unless he was intending to play it that way, but that really makes no sense.
Why don’t you watch the episode first before you say people make comments for attention? And although Emerson is totally amazing, it’s not as if he is God and the greatest actor alive. He’s perfect for THIS role and even the greats get some bad scripts and do the best they can with it. It certainly wasn’t pitiful acting, but it wasn’t top notch.
He did what he needed to do for the episode. He did not ruin the episode by any means. We are dealing with a fantasy realm here and their are going to be some scenes that are awkward, but does that mean the whole episode sucked. Not even close. Dead is dead was one of the best of the season.
I loved the awkward moments between Locke and Sun this episode. And Frank’s outrage over the whole situation was very believable, kudoes to Jeff Fahey!
Is it just me, or was Desmond holding a bag full of very thick canned chili when Ben shot him at point blank?
I loved the Smokey scene. To see the Black Smoke taunting Ben about Alex, and then manifesting itself as Alex to set him straight… very well done.
This episode was a major return for the show from the mediocrity of the last three or four. I would say that this has a direct correlation with the increased screen time for Terry O’Quinn, the decreased screen time for Evangeline Lilly and Matthew Fox, and the amount of scenes shared between O’Quinn and Michael Emerson.
I loved this episode…I have been very skeptical of naming a best episode, but i have no reservations about naming this the best…
I don’t know. I still think that “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham” has been the best this season. But, yeah, this one is certainly in the running.
you have a point there. I’ve loved many of the episodes this season, and there are a few from past seasons…I’m so indecisive that I’ll probably go back and forth and never decided on a #1 episode…
In a Linus-centric episode, I thought Locke’s steely presence stole the show. Has O’Quinn ever oozed such confidence and calm resolve the way he did portraying born-again Locke? I don’t think so.
The big reveal for me is the knowledge that Ben’s motivations in kidnapping Alex were nobel. It finally gives us a reason to believe Ben’s season 2 finale claim that ‘we’re the good guys, Michael’. But just because Ben is human and empathetic towards Alex as a result of his own troubled childhood does NOT clear Ben of the innumerable other sins he committed, nor the fact that he has been in league with an island that now appears to have questionable intentions itself (can you say human sacrifice? Did I interpret something wrong or was Ben being punished for NOT killing Alex as baby?)
My favorite image: Ben and John, the island’s once and future prophets, sporting suit pants and dress shirts walking down the dharma dock towards their destiny, looking not unlike Mormon recruiters spreading the Word door to door. Straight up classic shot!
Finally, Ben’s been there, done that attitude while manipulating the guy on the beach with the gun was perfect!
Definitely will put to rest the anxiousness felt after a string of episodes that hung upon your willingness to buy into the quirky, nearly tongue in cheek portrayal of 70′s Dharma.
Well, we got some of the reasons why Ben did what he’s done through his life, but to say he is “good” is a bit of a stretch. I believe Smokey was trying to shake sense into him at the end; I know you are planning to kill John, again. You know what they say about the road to hell.
No, Ben was not being punished for not killing Alex as a baby.
But did you get the sense that Widmore may have been on to something when talking about what the island wanted Ben to do with Alex? It seems to me Ben may have been at odds with the island on what needed to happen to Alex, the BABY. The obvious question to me is What DOES the island want done with Alex, or any baby, born on the island.
Chris in Fort Worth
on one hand the monster [in my mind] was rebuking ben for letting alex die but on the other it was portrayed as if Charles was onto something. I highly agree that the island has questionable intentions.. Love the show regardless
It may be like Charlie’s situation.
Danielle was always meant to die young, it was simply a matter of when — by dying when and how she did, she acted as a catalyst for Ben to develop as a character by owning his guilt and correcting his path, a parallel to what happened with Boone and Locke in Further Instructions.
Who is Ilana? Is she working for Widmore? Why is she talking like ancient prose “in the shadow of the statue”? What is in the box? Was it on the plane or on the island and they loaded it into the box? How many of the other passengers are her people? Can you tell my head is spinning? And, now we all have to guess who Penny’s mom is, no?
I think that illana and the others definitly have something to do with widmore. He probably knew Ben was trying to get back to the island and he sent some lackies to get his foot in the door. As for the shadow of the statues thing, i immediatly thought of season 2′s hatch riddle “what did one snowman say to the other snowman”. Maybe illana and the other man, i believe his name is Bram, knew what the island was, what they were there for, and that there were other people with the same objectives on the plane that would not know them but would know the answer to that riddle, confirming they have the same employer.
I am guessing Ben blew it big time when he did made the taunting phone call to Widmore. With his world-wide tentacles, he was able to spring his team, sans Abaddon, into action. He found out what flight the five 06ers were booked on. Ilana, the head of that team, got the team onto the flight, picked up Sayid, and was ready to see what happens. Why she would not know about Ben Linus is a bit of a mystery, or maybe she did and just decided not to kill him immediately for some other reason.
Is all this the set up for the war that is coming?
I don”t think they had anything to do with Widmore. But yes this does have something to do with the coming War.
Maybe it is whoever the the message from the past sent by Cheng and Faraday made it to a modern day group that is still related to Dharma and they are coming back to the island to reclaim it.
how could it have nothing to do w/ widmore and yet something to do w/ the war?!?! Is widmore NOT the one thats supposed to be bringing the war????
Widmore just said their was a war coming and he wanted John on the Island so the right side won. That does not mean Charles is the cause of the war nor does it mean Illiana has anything to do with Widmore.
If not Widmore, than who or what? Dharma, or whoever created Dharma?
I am guessing the war that Widmore said is coming will be the center of Season Six and the resolution of the war will be the finale. The remainder of this season will be to establish who is on which side in the war, and what the war is being fought over.
Illiana being part of a Widmore group is just too obvious and Lost has already done that story. Do you really think they are going to set up a War that repeats the end of season 4? I doubt it strongly.
One thing Lost isn’t and that is predictable.
Very true. Illana working for widmore does seem a little to obvious at this point. Another thing is that people are forgetting that she was supposably hired to bring sayid back. What does that have to do with her plans? Like i said above i believe the 316ers might have something to do with DARMA and by extension the mysterious alvar hanso and the DeGroots (who were actually somewhat mentioned 3 eps ago) The reason i think this is because i believe what lies in the shadow of the statue is code for the 316ers to find out who else is working for DHARMA. The last time we heard a riddle like that was from desmond in season 2 and the premier of this season “what did one snowman say to the other snowman”
I really liked all the mysteries and intrigue in this episode, but I didn’t feel it was particularly strong on the character end, the editing/story structure seemed less solid than in past seasons, and some history was rewritten – all Ben had to do to stop Keamy from killing Alex was to surrender? I think not. It was reiterated several times during that episode (and backed up by Keamy’s character) that they were there to kill everyone, unleash poison gas, whathaveyou.
So, strong on mystery, but I don’t think it qualifies as best episode ever.
The question(s) remain, why does Widmore need (want) to get back so badly? Why does this all-powewrful island need protection by simple humans, from simple humans? It’s obviously not a fountain of youth to anyone ( other than Richard, and not neccesarily so…). What is so important? Why does the island need anyone? Why does anyone need the island? God, I love this show!
Anyone catch what Ben said to Alex? It sounded like
“Yes i will follow him, i love sawyer” (?!)
Obviously it wasn’t but I can’t make anything out and i watched it five or six times!
Great episode though, definately the best since “THe man behind the curtain”
he said “I’ll swear”
Good episode, but not great…nowhere near Best Episode Ever…Everybody says that after nearly every episode…in the case of Dead is Dead, it ain’t true.
Acting was cheesy on many facets, the cgi was the worst ever (and the show has done superb thus far) and the whole rehashing of past events in the smoke was pretty tacky, Alex being tough is never believable, another pointless showing of a young Ethan (are they doing this now for pure shock value?), did Ben really come back to atone for killing his daughter? I don’t think so, lame excuse and hopefully it will be revealed later that it’s a lie…was it necessary to kill Caesar? I mean he had the gun, why not just keep it and take off in the boat with it, aiming it at Caesar until they are gone…seemed like Caesar was going to be a good character…the episode was poorly paced and overfilled with plot thickeners, not enough time was spent on one thing, it was just GO GO GO!! GET TO THE END!! REVEAL REVEAL REVEAL!! Just seemed like they were packing too much in one episode.
So, before I’m maimed on this site, I want to clarify that it wasn’t a bad episode, certainly intriguing, but come on, best episode ever! Seriously?
Let’s hope they make a bigger deal out of Widmore being banished and why, let’s hope they stop throwing purely shock value items in like Ethan pop-ups–let’s hope that the Smoke Monster gets back to killing…let’s hope they slow it down just a tad, I mean I know there’s only a season and a few episodes left but episodes like this seems like they are writing purely to appease fans now and not to tell a compelling story.
Trust me, I’m a huge LOST fan, it is the greatest show! I’m just saying, sometimes, Darlton and the Team can come across as if they are reading a bit too much into what the fans want and lose some of that storytelling that they have. I honestly believe that Caesar’s death was because Darlton read all over the internet about how everyone thought Caesar was going to be the new big villain, and so they decided “we’ll totally prove em wrong”…blast, unnecessary shot to the chest.
Anyway…lemme have it. I know what’s coming. This site is like a gauntlet if you’re negative toward the show.
lol I agree w/ most of what you said. They have been packing too much in. But I still very much am a fan. IT IS THE ONLY SHOW I TURN MY TV ON FOR. That is a fact and not an exaggeration whatsoever. I didnt care for ceaser personally and I really dont care for NEW villains at this point at all. I want to know EVERYTHING possible about all the people from seasons 1-4. I wanna know about the statues and the mythology. Screw some new villain chick. Its like suffering thru anna lucias old dog face again [god i hated that]
Anyways BROTHA! state your peace and let it be. If someone disagrees w/ you who cares? Dont beg for mercy before the guillotine comes down. Ben didnt.. BE LIKE BEN! lol
a lot of people moaned that lost never provided answers in previous seasons, that new questions were always raised… well, now we’re getting answers. personally, i love the way the show is going (although the whole 70s dharma thing seems a little gratuitous).
i do agree that ethan’s regular appearances are starting to annoy me- although im half expecting a reveal in the finale where ethan is the monster. maybe that’s the trick we all missed in the very first episode- the bit where ethan unfolds into a plume of smoke and… ok ill stop now.
on the cgi front, i have to say, there’s been some dodgy stuff popping up this season. the ajira crash cgi looked like a cut-scene from the first diablo game. awful. and i hope lapidus goes back to the island, so we don’t have to put up with following ilana and the ajirans. so dull.
but yer, basically, lost is awesome. and that’s all.
PLEASE, this episode was written and filmed before Caesar was ever introduced. If your going to make a statement like that do some research first.
One of the unique things about this season is they are way to far ahead in production (actually they are totally done now) to be reading fan comments and making decisions based on that.
Also, we just had three back to back character driven episodes so I don’t understand your statement about going to fast. They have always given the fans at least 2 mythology heavy episodes in every season.
Plus we had scenes, a lot of scenes, were Ben and Locke were walking to were they needed to go, on the dock then through the jungle, which seemed to slow the pace of the show done and gave us some very intriguing dialogue.
I think your major complaint is with Caesar and the fact that he got killed, also you don’t seem to like that people are raving about the episode. that is fine, but just about all the characters are expendable, like reading a Stephen King book, and don’t get confused with the reason he got killed, it had nothing to do with fan opinion (unlike nicky and paulo).
Understood, but you can’t expect every fan with an opinion to know the shooting schedule of the show. And just because Ben and Locke were walking a lot doesn’t mean they covered much ground. And just because the previous three episodes were “character-centric” doesn’t mean I don’t stand by the fact that episodes that pack too much in aren’t the best.
So he got blasted in the chest by a sawed off shotgun…. This is the island! This is Lost for chrissakes! Who says he’s dead? C’mon people!!
I’ve liked Said Taghmaoui in everything I’ve seen him in since his great performance in “Three Kings.” If he’s dead, it’s a shame… I was excited to find out he was joining the cast this season because–like Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, Lance Reddick (Matthew Abbadon), Fionnula Flanagan (Eloise Hawking), Francois Chau (Dr. Chang/Candle/Halliwax, Andrew Divoff (Mikhail), April Grace (Bea Klugh), Alexandra Krosney (young Eloise) David S. Lee (middle-aged Charles) and a slew of other supporting characters–he was a total LOST casting choice. His presence just FIT, you know. As far as I’m concerned, casting is of the utmost importance when it comes to a show like this in order to continually draw the audience into the mystery, the intrigue, the surrealism. Lost has hit and miss.
I’ve written on this site before about many of the misses… I can’t reiterate enough how let down I was in season 3 by most of the casting choices for the Others. These were the whisperers, the omniscient beings, the island natives, the babystealers! the pirates, the walt kidnappers! the torch bearers, the beard-wearing doublecrossers, the signalers of black smoke… they had this unbelievable cachet, their motives–cloaked in secrecy–made their actions all the more frightening and unpredictable. And when it came time to actually meet them what did we get…? Not the cold calculating masterminds we had imagined but something closer to the cast of Desperate Housewives!! We got book clubs!! We got the milquetoast Danny Pickett and Wife and Mary Poppins and Juliet and that guy with the beard?! Tom?!! He’s not so bad afterall! He’s hospitable and accommodating and he vacations in New York with his off-island booty call Rico, isn’t that so terrifying? Godd@mn… all those casting decisions left me furious.
Okay, breath… i’m ranting… The point is, it won’t be the first time I’ve been upset about an interesting character dying… Mr. Eko got killed off prematurely, Walt had to go, Abbadon dead this season… And I’m sure it won’t be the last… But like I said, who said he’s dead? This is Lost…
The island didn’t find Ben not guilty, he confessed. What the island did was forge a necessary alliance understanding fully that Ben’s compliance could only be guaranteed through a threat of utter destruction.
Just watched the episode (yeah kinda late) but omg! Michael Emerson is such a fantastic actor and deserves an emmy for sure. John locke + Ben = gold. Plus we got to see a bit of Desmond!
Im not yet really sure what richard is. But one thing i think i have become certain of is that richard and jacob are brothers or relatives of somekind. Im also not sure how jacob became the entity he is now (turing the wheel or insert plot devise here). But i am almost positive that by the end of the season we will find out that these two are siblings.
The problem with this episode was its contrivance.
Because of all the sick Ben-Lovers out there the writers changed course a bit to keep Emerson on the show.
But that’s okay. In the end the only way Ben Bad Bad Ben can redeem himself for all his slaughters and machinations is to do, a “sacrifice” like John.
It’s still a mistake, though. Lost will be forever off-kilter because of this cave-in by the writers.
What makes you so sure that the writers caved in to anyone? The fact that the fictional character of Ben brings so much animousity out of you not only against him, but also the writers and viewing audience, is the grandest testament of what a great character he is. Do I like/trust/believe Ben? Hell no. But damn dude- take it easy.
[...] Lost 5.12 – Dead is Dead – Rate and Rant [...]
I do exactly the same thing. I don’t blame you for not commenting if you think you’re not going to add something new to the discussion.