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Man, JJ gets the social aspects of spoilers – but not the web marketing aspects. Still, here is an interesting passage from JJ Abrams’ article at wired.com plus a little video ditty concerning his takeover of the mag as guest editor. Looks like a can’t miss issue!
In my profession, this mentality is illustrated by the spoiler: that piece of information meant to be kept secret, like the end of a movie or TV show or novel. Spoilers give fans the answers they want, the resolution they crave. As an avid fan of movies and TV myself, I completely understand the desire to find out behind-the-scenes details in a nanosecond. Which, given technology, is often how long it takes—to the frustration of the storytellers. Efforts to gather this intel and the attempts to plug leaks create an ongoing battle between filmmakers and the very fans they are dying to entertain and impress. But the real damage isn’t so much that the secret gets out. It’s that the experience is destroyed. The illusion is diminished. Which may not matter to some. But then what’s the point of actually seeing that movie or episode? How does knowing the twist before you walk into the theater—or what that island is really about before you watch the finale—make for a richer viewing experience? It’s telling that the very term itself—spoiler—has become synonymous with “cool info you can get before the other guy.” What no one remembers is that it literally means “to damage irreparably; to ruin.” Spoilers make no bones about destroying the intended experience—and somehow that has become, for many, the preferred choice.
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If knowing the twist ruins the story, then it’s probably not a very good story. If the story is good, the ending doesn’t matter.
So is Lost a good story? If it is, then by your “logic” you should stop watching it now. The ending doesn’t matter, right?
That’s not what he meant and you know it. He clearly meant, if the story is good, the twist doesn’t matter. A twist will not turn a bad story into a good one. No one sits down and says “Man, The Village was a pretty stupid movie, until I found out they were in a nature reserve!”
If your story is solely an exposition delay to the twist (as Shamalayan movies are) then you’re a hack. Lost, so far, as not been that way at all. There are plot twists, sure, but the stories aren’t built around them. Does knowing Locke was paralyzed change Walkabout on second viewing? Yes, but not necessarily for the worst. You get a better appreciation for all the things in that episode you took for granted (camera angles, dialog, etc) that hid the twist from you. All of these things were done intentionally.
This isn’t to defend spoilers. But you can’t put the spoiler genie back in the bottle, you can only work to minimize the impact of news leaving your set. Look at the ending of Season 4, shot three ways to keep even the cast and crew guessing. If more showrunners took the perspective that spoilers will get out, then you would get spoilers more along the lines of “Jack and Ben see someone in a coffin. It was either Sawyer, Locke, or Desmond.”
Thank you. Yes, I should have said “the twist doesn’t matter”. But you’ve explained my point well.
To Cutter XXIII: why would I stop watching now if the story is still good? That would be completely contrary to my point.
Incidentally, I didn’t know the twist in Walkabout, but I did see it coming, and it didn’t ruin a thing. The reason I saw it coming is because it was so well foreshadowed, in camera shots and clever dialog overlaying.
JJ’s point is that the knowledge is best derived through experience of the artists execution…
i agree, and because i do, I won’t read any spoilers for tonight’s attempt to make additional advertising revenue on a show that was shortened to 16/17 episodes per season. in all honesty, even though there will always be people looking for spoilers, and thus people supplying them, if there wasn’t such a huge gap in between seasons and smaller gaps DURING the seasons, then the ratings would surely be higher and the spoiler traffic reduced. i’ll take some of the blame for looking at spoilers occasionally, as long as they take equal blame for mis-managing the scheduling of what should be a much higher rated show. i can’t remember how many people that have told me recently that they stopped watching due to long breaks in between seasons. unreal.
Mate, you hit that nail on the head so hard right then, it went straight through the piece of 2 by 4 and lodged into the top of my foot. Season 5 is going to finish in less than a month, and it’s highly likely that season 6 will not screen until probably, as history has dictated, the end of January/ beginning of February next year. So that means the show will be off the air for nearly nine months. Nine muthaf*@~#$g months!! As far as I’m aware, and anybody, please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, shooting for season 6 will begin some time in August of this year, leaving roughly five to six months before the first episode that is filmed will premiere.
Now, i’ve never claimed to be the smartest apple to fall from the tree, but doesn’t that give potential spolier merchants more than enough time to “irreparably damage”, as J.J Abrams put it, the intended story. I find myself being stuck between a rock and a hard place, greatly admiring J.J and Damon Lindelof’s work and styles of storytelling (i’ve never been a huge Star Trek fan, but can’t wait to watch the new movie). I do, however, strongly oppose their stance on spoilers, especially considering they seem more than happy to make long term, and short term fans wait three months shy of a year, to see the end of one of their most famous creations.
Fans complained that the hiatus between the first and second havles of season 3 was too long, but how is that any worse than the waits we had to endure between 3 & 4, 4 & 5, and soon, 5 & 6. I’m really hoping that they decide to amend the length of the final season of Lost, throw a few extra episodes in there and stretch it out so that they can resolve every unresolved element of the story. They should also screen the first six or seven episodes no later than October and not make fans wait so damn long to see them. I mean, I get the concept of the shorter season… It gives the makers of the show more time to fashion it’s look, ABC the chance to make more money and get more ratings, but ultimately, it’s the fans that suffer. Is it any wonder that people scour the internet for spoliers?
It ruins the emotional response derived from the reveal. Ideally the story is still good upon second viewing (say knowing the twist of Gift of the Magi).
Alright, in theory. But then you don’t ever get to criticize a show for a plot turn that you saw coming, since outcomes don’t matter, right? I don’t want to hear people like you, or any spoiler-readers for that matter, saying that the writing has faulted in some way because you could see coming an event like, say, Sayid shooting Ben, or Ben strangling Locke.
By “the ending doesn’t matter”, I did not mean to imply that you can tack a terrible ending onto an otherwise good story. I meant that *knowing* the ending doesn’t matter. A stupid or obvious outcome can ruin an otherwise well-told story.
“What no one remembers is that [spoiler] literally means ‘to damage irreparably; to ruin.’”
Preach it, JJ.
ouch! i’m a big spoiler fan, maybe i need to rethink my obsession with spoilers!
The question is: Do you have any vested emotions when a twist comes on screen? If you’re response is irrelevant from knowing or not the twist, then you just want to know.
But if you respond differently to a twist based on knowledge of it, in that case you may need to rethink your obsession.
I love my spoilers, I’m not going to lie. But I understand what JJ is saying. I totally hate it, for example, when there’s a movie I’m just dying to watch, and I get into it, and then someone walks in, “oh btw, so and so totally dies at the end” while I’m still in the middle of the discovery part of the process! And it does ruin the experience. It has nothing to do w/the piece being good or bad, it just puts things out of focus.
So for as much as I love spoilers when it comes to LOST, I don’t read ALL of them, just a few here or there, so as not to ruin the entire experience. Some things, I just need to know! =)
I prefer to call them tidbits! I love how everyone has to analize it… that’s why I thought the writers slip out sneak peeks…to keep us talking about it and waiting for the next… tidbit! You never ‘really know’?
And you cannot deny the cultural and artistic world of Lost that has opened doors to so many! Art in many forms: Paintings, Statues, Music, Books,etc.. This show is solid and intense and imaginative and spiritual and just an honest creative sense of being human…
(yes, i long for spoilers…but I must wait like they have to in th UK, so sorry)
Love the show!!!
I’m with JJ on this one. Sure, I want to look at spoilers as much as anyone. But it just totally destroys that moment. I’m sure a lot of people had first hand experience with LOST’s Season 3 finale – a game changing moment that sent your jaw through the floor, if you didn’t read spoilers.
It’s not about how the book ends, it’s about how we get there.
I think the intense mystery of LOST alters the spoiler experience from say revealing the twist of Sixth Sense to someone who has never seen the film.we are always on the edge of our seat for what will come next, plus carrying the baggage of all these old mysteries. It is a lot of frustration for fans, and the occasional spoiler relieves that. You have the very basis of behavioral modification there..
I find myself much more drawn to seeking out spoliers between seasons. Those spoiler tidbits somewhat ease the withdrawal over the seven month waits for new eps. Once the season starts, I try to avoid them.
I think for your average TV show JJ has a point. I would argue that because of the depth of mystery involved with LOST, many things could be revealed with spoilers and never have to be addressed in the show. Take a show from the 1980’s like Dallas for example. The whole cliffhanger at the end of their season was “Who shot J.R.?” All of the following season was dedicated to this one plot and certainly if a spoiler revealed who shot J.R. before the next season, their whole ratings blitz would be done, and in this case I would completely support JJ’s attitude with spoilers.
But what happens if you were spoiled either accidentally or intentionally about who was in the coffin, would you stop watching LOST? Of course not, and it’s not just because we’re really big fans! Depending on who it was brought on 9 million other questions I need answered. Why was Locke dead? Who killed him? What does this mean for the other Losties? Who will lead the others, etc? The fact that Locke was in the coffin wasn’t the ONLY issue at hand, so knowing it was him wouldn’t be a major factor.
Finally, I for one am a fan who didn’t join in until season 2 of LOST. Part of my attraction to this show is all of the elements of mystery, mythology and frustration every week of what is not explained. I think ABC has embraced the whole “viral” marketing aspect of the show. This wouldn’t be possible without the spoiler Internet connection.
I’m sure there are some, but there’s not too many shows on TV that you can truly say “if you don’t watch LOST now, there’s no way you can start with next week’s episode” and understand what the heck is going on without renting or buying the first four seasons. I think in the case of LOST, JJ and ABC benefit very well from the whole spoiler movement.
JJ is a smart man. Maybe it’s time to listen to the creator of that which gave you notoriety.
Spoilers have their place among fans, certainly, but J.J. Abrams makes a valid point. Obviously what he’s saying isn’t all that original; he’s just more articulate than most, and his place in our hearts as co-creator of LOST lends his opinion even more importance.
Personally, I have come to hate spoilers. Back in season 3, I got really into them until near the end of the season when I decided I wanted to be surprised by the finale. But then I was reading comments on this site and somebody let the twist slip. The article was a recap of “Cabin Fever.” I was livid, of course.
Dp2 claims that if the spoiler spoils the story than the story must not have been all that good. I totally disagree with that statement. LOST is an epic story built on its many twists, turns and misdirections. These are built into the story; knowing the twists doesn’t ruin the story as much as it does the payoff from the ride. For example, there is no better feeling than riding a new roller coaster for the first time. It is exciting, unpredictable, and unexpected. Afterwards, while each successive ride may still be fun, it will always pale in comparison to the first time. With LOST, the story remains in tact and awesome, but that initial moment of discovery is unparalled.
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Any spoiler pales in conparison to the actual experience of the episode that is so precisely written and still inhabits your mind! The Entire Lost Crew are the Best!!!
I had the end of season 4 spoiled by spoilers, but not done directly by one. I was looking at comments on a trailer where someone left “Just read Locke is the one in the coffin and Michael dies on the ship”. Of course I didn’t want to beleive it so that I could enjouy the episode but sadly I didn’t find it a good as it should have been.
As ive said many times before, i hate the idea of spoilers, but when i see the start of a article, i cannot help but press read more, docarzt, please consider the idea of haveing a spoiler page insted of showing them with the no-spoilers articles.
He already has a way to mask spoiler images. You have to go halfway and exercise a little self-restraint. It’s not up to the rest of us to hold your hand.
I’m with JJ…Spoilers are very very tempting & sometimes you get lured in…then after you do/accidentally do, In my experience I get that feeling of dread that I just saw something I didn’t want to see just yet. Or After I seen something, I have the thought in my head and when the big reveal happens (everyone around you is like zomgwtfbbqftwawesome and I’m like…omgyay,iknew thisalready…& i lack the excitement). at the end of season 3…I was on the edge of my seat in amazement and confused…and I remember rushing to my computer to see everyone’s thoughts…it was fun discussing the “wtf” moment…had I known about it? I may have enjoyed it but again…it wouldn’t have been a “wtf” moment for me. and i want it to be!!
For LOST i enjoy being spoiler free. It keeps that excitement on high, the guessing keeps flowing. Lost is like a puzzle and we are finally putting the pieces together…I waited this long, I’m ready and willing to wait for the final outcome. The most exciting thing about Lost for me IS not knowing what’s going on, or what’s going happen next..and as much as one craves the answers..i love the suspense and the fun of theorizing in the meantime to see how close I am. or how far off i actually was.
I love seeing the way things are starting to unfold and if I spoil myself…then it loses the suspense (I’d still enjoy it regardless, but you do lose the feeling)..it’s one thing to guess/predict when something is about to happen, it’s another when you already know.
Lost is so interactive I can’t see how people turn away during hiatus..that’s the time I turn to researching, easter egging, screen capping or video editing – “to get my fix” or just flat out watch the seasons all over again..and I still manage to stay spoiler free…
When re-watching season 1-5 (or any episode you’ve already seen) – you now know “whats going to happen” – but it doesn’t matter because it’s a completely new experience all over again, you’ve been through “not knowing” now you can test the reactions of “Knowing”..& you notice NEW things, or see things you might have missed…or things from season 5 relate to season 1 and you are like A HA!!! Now it makes sense. lol
Sorry for my ramblings, I probably got off track/off topic, and repeaded things..but anyway, I’m happy to be spoiler free! lol
I agree but disagree… For example I knew the spoiler that said Charlie was going be killed.. Fine- But it didn’t say when or how… When it happened I was still emotional crazied… And it didn’t ruin anything for me. And I personally do not think knowing the ending is a bad thing… I did know the ending of the Sixth Sense, Because I knew an actor that worked on it. I also knew the ‘twist’ of Fight Club since I read the book… But I still enjoyed the movie, and can still watch those movies over and still enjoy them. I guess it all depends if you focus more on the ending, or the journey to the ending. For example if you told me right now that a spoiler was that Jack would be killed in the next episode I wouldn’t be mad, I would just love to see how they kill him…. But some people do not like knowing that stuff, and that should be respected.
He’s right, I do think it’s more enjoyable to watch what’s happening without knowing about it ahead of time. I understand why people seek it out beforehand and that’s fine too, as long as they don’t try to be crappy and ruin it for those who don’t want to know.
I 100 percent agree with JJ.
People who some how believe they can enjoy Lost being spoiled as much as people are not are insane in the membrane.
I would go far to say there not ‘true’ fans…
Wow, that’s incredibly kind of you. You’ve totally ruined my day, now that I know I’ll never be as big of a fan of Lost as Gjay. I mean, what will I do with the rest of my life? I’ll probably have to kill myself because I can never be as great as you.
Judge not, lest ye be judged, Sparky.
Spoilers are a phenomenon that really exploded with the Internet. Before the Internet became widespread in the mid-90s, a spoiler basically amounted to someone seeing a movie before you did, coming home and blabbing “DARTH VADER IS LUKE’S FATHER” to everyone. Fan magazines would occasionally print snippets of information about an upcoming movie or series in order to entice readers and keep them reading, but those publications had an agreement (whether spoken or unspoken) with entertainment companies not to ruin their product by leaking spoilers. Doing so would make it unlikely that they would ever get another interview.
The problem is that now, through the Internet, that idiot who came home and told you that Darth Vader was Luke’s father before you got a chance to go out and see the flick can now ruin the movie for literally millions of people by posting on a blog, forum or chat room. Word spreads like wildfire on the web and what once was a huge incentive to tune in becomes something that can never live up to your expectations. Worse, these blabbering idiots don’t have that same incentive that the legitimate publications had to keep mum about big secrets. In fact, the opposite is often true now– spoiler sites generate millions of hits and losers like lostfan108 become celebrities just for leaking elements of a story someone else wrote. The victims of all this are the fans who do not want to be spoiled but happen to scroll down the wrong comments page to find some loser yapping that “LOCKE IS IN THE COFFIN,” and the creators who lose the opportunity to tell the story in the way they intended.
Publications used to tease little bits of info (vague hints that there would be an upcoming death on a show were common), set and production photos seemed pretty agreeable, and so forth. When that sort of thing was sanctioned by the companies who provided the creative material, you could crack open a magazine and know that you weren’t going to have anything too earth-shattering spoiled for you. Unfortunately on the Internet, with so many would-be scoop celebs trying to get a piece of the pie, there’s no way to control information like that anymore.
So it falls to us to us to do our own screening, to decide what level of spoilers we are comfortable with and do our best to keep blinders on to everything else. It’s not easy when the end of a season approaches and you know that somewhere, some jackass has intimate details about the frozen donkey wheel posted for all to see. But taking personal responsibility is never easy.
“a twist can’t make a bad story good”
True, but it CAN make a good story into a legendary one. If you live in a cave and have never seen the Star Wars saga, stop reading now.
We all (I hope) agree that the first Star Wars and first 7/8 of Empire were TREMENDOUS film achievements on their own. It was already a great story. A modern day epic. But the twist at the end of Empire made the story from a great one into something that is still one of the greatest moments of film TO THIS DAY. Now, imagine seeing Hope or Empire for the first time and having the end of Empire spoiled for you in advance. I think it GREATLY diminishes the viewing experience leading up to that scene. Some may say it adds depth and emotion as well as context to a conflict that otherwise was just political (more or less), but I disagree.
And to the person who said “If the story is good, the ending doesn’t matter.” Well, that just doesn’t really make any sense. When someone says “story” I interpret that to mean the COMPLETE work of prose: exposition, climax, resolution, etc. So, if the story is good, the ending needs to be a part of it. Lets go back to Star Wars because I’m a geek. If as Hurley suggested, Darth and Luke hug it out at the end of Empire and become buddies, that destroys the entire movie. Why? Because everything that comes before the end is leading up to the conclusion. If you have (since this is a show) over 100 hours leading like a freight train towards a conclusion (and on this show, we know by now that everything that happens is leading to something), you can’t lay an egg in the finale. Go ask a Sopranos fan about an ending. Or like me, a Deadwood fan. Do I still enjoy Deadwood on every rewatch, yeah. But the lack of a concrete ending and much of the character resolution definitely affects how I feel about the show.
Not sure that you should have posted this here, even with the warning. I’m sure Doc would have gotten around to posting it under the SPOILERS! label if he saw fit.
You have now posted this 4 times. Even though you have prefaced it with a spoiler warning, it’s starting to look like you are determined and excited to get this info out to everyone, including people who do not want to be spoiled. I am no spoilerphobe, however I’m sure that there are some who would prefer not to see it here. Just a heads up.