Lost Theories - The Rules of the Game

I don't think the rules have anything to do with others against others and I don't even think there are actual set rules. Maybe he just means up until that point it had been like a war using people like presidents who aren't attached to the soldiers, but now widmore has made a personal attack on someone close to ben so now it's personal. Don't you feel like in a real war the rules would sort of be changed if one side killed the presidents family member instead of just the soldiers?

Widmore accused Ben of killing Alex, so perhaps his disavowing any real connection to the girl made Keamy believe that killing her was within the rules. Thus, Ben's attempted gambit caused her death.

i agree with bosblinkyboy.

everyone keeps asking about these rules. and trying to figure out.
and i think its very simple, what i got from it was EXACTLY what blinkboy did. that it was a unwritten rule, you DONT touch family. and ben knowing that widmore had a daughter, assumed that you DONT touch family, cuz in return the same thing would happen. and when it was broken, now ben is on a vendetta of his own.

i think people are looking into the meaning of it way to much.

"When Juliet killed Picket, she was banished and marked."

That's not true. She was still working for Ben. The only reason she's not working for the Others now is that she rejected them to join the Losties. She was supposed to be a mole for Ben but she betrayed him to truly join the 815ers.

It is true that she was "working for Ben," however, so does Michael and Sayid. Would you consider them "others?" Juliet was punished for her actions. The mark was part of that punishment. She was also "put out" of the group. Ben interviened in her punishment which would have been much more severe. Jack cut a deal with Ben so that Juliet would not be harmed. I don't think that working for Ben neccesarily makes one an Other.

ErasedSlate said:
'An Other' has only killed 'An Other' and not suffered punishment after consent was given (i.e. Plugh told Mikhail to kill her.)

Not true! Ben ordered Mikhail to kill Bonnie and Greta...and he did.

I don't see how Ben's hands are stain-free. I mean, at first he promised Locke he would take the pregnant women without anyone getting hurt - but later on, he ordered anyone to kill whoever gets in their way.

Isn't being a shot collar, someone ordering to kill someone, just as bad if not worse than doing the murder yourself? Now of course, he wasn't successful, but the attempt was just as bad as killing.

And of course, Jack falls in the same category of attempting to kill someone, but failing.

That's interesting what you say about Sayid killing off people from Widmore's list. I hadn't made the connection that the lists we've seen on the island protect people but the list from flash forwards are more like a hit list. Interesting suggestion that there is a Linus List and a Widmore List.

Gusteaux, that is exactly right. How do I make that fit? Or, do I need to? After their deaths, Mikhail finally might his own. Could say tat justice was served according to the "rules."

sk8rpro, were the women on Jacob's list? I think the protection is offered only for those on the list. It is kinda dark to think that those not on the list are fair game. We don't know whom, in the fuselage, are on the list, if any. I think combining your point and Gusteaux's point is what gives this whole speculation problems.

it was Beatrice Klugh, not 'plugh'

interesting thoughts. gives me something to think about for the time being...

I'm of the school of thought that the "rules" that Ben was speaking of aren't those of some unseen contract between Widmore and Ben. Perhaps Ben is living in a time loop like Desmond? And maybe the rules he refers to are in fact his previous experiences that he is currently re-living? Maybe last time Ben went through this, Alex wasn't shot. He certainly wasn't expecting that outcome, and he certainly always seems to know what's going on. He is a walking talking Lostpedia, after all.

Interesting. Getting on the list is like being in the Mafia and being "made."

Still doesn't explain why Jacob picks people to be on the list. But it does suggest that Jacob and Widmore have rival lists.

Erased -
Great start to a theory. However, I'm not fully convinced that it's that detailed. I also took the line to mean that Widmore had crossed the line in their "gentleman's agreement" by making it personal. With that said, I'd love to see it take on this wrinkle you've introduced. I think it just adds to the many layers that keep those "earthworm view" of the show so interesting. You can literally get lost (pun intended) in all the minutiae that is the Lost mythology. And somedays...I do.

colquitt - all you have to say is "time loop" and I am on board! I like the idea that these are a sequence of repeated events. And, that this is outcome that had not happened in the previous loops. Nice!

Merl - There is something so shocking about a child being murdered in front of her parent. You can't help but infuse your own values and emotion into such a storyline. It is that incomprehensible event that spurs the obsessive thoughts about the "rules of the game." I absolutely believe that it is tied back to the lists. And, that this re-writing of the rules frees Ben to have Sayid do that thing that he does so well.

The question that I was afraid to ask in this article was who really killed Nadia? Was it really Widmore's agent or Ben's?

I'm more interested into why Ben and Widmore cannot kill each other.

You would think that if Ben killed Widmore, the 'game' would be over and the island would be forever safe. But this is Lost afterall, and it makes too much sense to someone who hasn't seen the rest of the series.

Does anyone else feel that Ben had something to do with Nadia's death and that he was putting on an elaborate hoax to get Sayid to go all vigilante and go after Widmore associates for him. He had an odd evil smile on his face after he turned away from Sayid. And we know he is a master of manipulation and lying and he does not like to do his own dirty work. Does this put Sayid in a position to be the one who tries to take out Penny in the future?One day will she be next.

He indirectly killed Goodwin, Cooper, Greta & Bonnie.
I assume on his orders Charlie was killed as Mikhail was not acting independantly, and all the Dharma people were killed indirectly on his orders.

Ben killed Roger Linus himself also the Bedoin man and he shot Locke and left him for dead.

Juliet' husband was killed was that on Ben or Jacob's orders

I ask that same question regarding who really killed Nadia. We definitely need a reason as to why she was killed. Was Sayid about to talk? Does that lead to her death? Was one of Widmore's lackies trying to get information from her? Or, maybe Ben planted information that was guaranteed to have her killed by one of Widmore's Associates.

Heck, I still want to know if Widmore was the one that Elsa was talking to after she shot Sayid? Is Widmore taking orders from something/someone like Jacob?

Again, I believe that anyone not on the list is fair game. They are not protected. This could also mean that some of the Others are also not on Jacob's list but are trying to earn a spot on the list. Maybe that answers Gusteaux's question earlier. Greta and Bonnie were simply not on the list.

Another Idea I had about 'The Rules':

[When] Everything Changes(the rules), Only Fools will be Inslaved by Time and Space

Ok so I have a new idea about 'The rules changing'

Obvioulsy the rules can be applied to 'playing' a game.
Thr Rule's also can tie into 'The Art of War' which could tie into the I-ching/dharma since the chiniese wrote the book.
And lastly rules could also be Laws, such as the Laws of Physics!

When you put these thing together you come up with the idea of
'Playing GOD'!

Lets say that things that are NOT changable/Course Correctable are YING. And that the things that are Changable are YANG.

In Sept. 2004 'the rules' say that YING out weighs the YANG and so everyone didn't have as many choices and their fates were being judged pre-decided

But after Christmas of 2004 The YANG took over and free will previaled, thus ANYONE can die and not be saved by divine intervention, however Time would also No longer matter becusse divin intervention would also have to include timing and thus it is undone to a degree...The only time that will matter is HOW LONG they have before the rules could change again which may coinside with how the Oceanic six or anyone get back to the island????

The ying/yang also represent Science vs Faith and with 'Original Sin' vs 'Free Will'

I don't think Sayid would kill Penny. Des is his friend, and thats his friends LOVE!!! He wouldnt take that from someone who is his friend. Regardless of who her father is. This is how Sayid stops working for Ben in the future(IMO) And I also think, Ben knew that The freighties Mercs, would take Alex hostage, and would use her against Him, and and that they would kill her, so he could say Widmore changed the Rules, so Ben could than go against them freely... or maybe not, but it is a Possibility. regardless, I still love Ben as my favorite character, and I hope he turns out to be the good villian, or the good guy

ErasedSlate said:
"...all you have to say is "time loop" and I am on board! I like the idea that these are a sequence of repeated events. And, that this is outcome that had not happened in the previous loops. Nice!"

Okay. What if there are time loops. And this loop has played out many times before WITHOUT Keamy killing Alex. Only this time he did. This time Widmore changed the rules. And what if changing the rules and killing Alex created a paradox...a paradox that would lead to the end of the world? Could this mean that Widmore has decided that he's tired of playing the game and if he can't have the island and it's powers, Ben can't either, he'll just destroy it, and the rest of the world with it?

Before someone respons with, "but Darlton said there would never be a paradox in LOST." Well, I can hear the podcast now, banjo in the background, one of them will say, Ah, BUT THE RULES HAVE CHANGED NOW!

Gusteaux - Ur last comment = PRICELESS haha awesome endinf to a post haha

Why does everyone assume that the "he" Ben refers to when he says, "He changed the rules", is Widmore?

Maybe "he" is Keamy, the man who actually killed Alex.

Either way, I don't buy into all this "rules" stuff anyway. I don't think there are actually set rules that refer to what people can and can't do in the war that has just begun. As someone said before, Keamy killed Ben's daughter. Before that happened, Ben was going to let the freighter army leave the island without launching a counter attack. When Keamy pulled the trigger, the "rules" changed, Ben got angry, and the counter attack was launched.

This is just another case of delving a little too deep.

I wondered if when Hurley said that he should not have gone with Locke
Beginning of the End) if he was reffering to going to the Losties camp or he meant this trip to Jacob's cabin with Locke & Ben.

" b said:

Why does everyone assume that the "he" Ben refers to when he says, "He changed the rules", is Widmore?

Maybe "he" is Keamy, the man who actually killed Alex."

Well, considering the ending where Ben confronts Widmore, I think it's pretty safe to say who "he" is.