The finale was the best so far for me. Loved the acting, story, and the donkey wheel! The return of some great musical cues for the last scene made it especially enjoyable.I am both excited and wary of the "jumped the shark" discussion this episode will and already has inspired.
Those of us out there who are wanting and willing to accept all subjects of time, space, ancient technology and maybe even aliens loved it; those out there who want a strictly rational explanation are gonna kill it. But really, if they feel this way, why are they still watching anyway?
The power of an end date for the show is now more important than ever.
Some random thoughts, questions for general discussion:
- If Penny came to the island because of Desmond's call, then that makes the listening station scene at the end of season 2 the first flash forward.
- Will Walt return? I sure hope so. It was a short scene but I was really impressed with his acting and presence.
-It is alluded to that Charlotte was born on the Island. How could this be? Is she perhaps the elusive Annie?
- The cyclical nature of the show rears its beautifully balanced head - sacrifice, false redemption, the kisses... Now that Kate has "seen" Claire, are we up for a repeat of this year's premier, i.e. Sun seeing Jin?
- The Orchid orientation video starts rewinding just as Halliwax says "the animal will seem to disappear, but in reality..." was he going to explain where the Bunny is when it seems to be gone? Does then the island move and come back to the point at which it existed previously? Does time pass on the Island when it is moving? Do the rules of the Orchid mirror those of the Wheel? This reverse happens at a very strategic time...
- Why can Ben not return to the island? Is it so he doesn't make contact with another Ben with a 15 on his back running around? Is he lying to Jack in the final scene and gathering up the O6 has nothing to do with them, but everything to do with getting himself back?
- Where is Sayid taking Hurley? I think it may be to Sun.
- The theory that Widmore will hide Penny on the Island gained some validity with Ben not being able to return.
- Is it possible that Alpert visited a young Locke only after things started going wrong with Locke as the Other's leader? Was choosing the knife the final straw and proof that as leader he would be violent?
- When Sun reminds Widmore that the O6 are not the only people to leave the Island, is she talking about Ben, Locke or someone else? I have a theory that Sun and Widmore may work together to revive Dharma.
So much more, but that's if for now. I guess we have a long while to ponder these questions... a long while... till then I'll be sippin' on my Dharma Rum and thinkin'...
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"If Penny came to the island because of Desmond's call, then that makes the listening station scene at the end of season 2 the first flash forward.
"
Explain?
I must agree that the score to the show was nothing short of amazing. Bravo.
About the new Dharma Initiative, I think that Charles has already started the wheel turning for a new Dharma crew, by bringing Faraday, Red, and Miles to the island. I think that Faraday and Juliet will emerge as the new DeGroots. Faraday and company, will try to understand and eventually use the powers of the island, and John Locke & Co. will try to stop them.
It's kind of like history repeating itself. Only with different factors. It's like trying to change the numbers in the Valenzetti equation. The first six didn't work, let's try another 6. It won't work, that's why the original 6 have to come back.
The blip at the listening station was from Desmond turning the key in the hatch. She found him in the ocean from the call he made from Freighter - she traced it.
Therefore, the scene at the listening station was not a flash fwd.
"If Penny came to the island because of Desmond's call, then that makes the listening station scene at the end of season 2 the first flash forward."
No, the listening station scene was a reaction to the failsafe key being turned. Once they found the EM anomily they contacted Penny in real time as far as the show is concerned. Once they pinned down the location more they were in position to trace the phone call which gave the location of the freighter and the Searcher went to that location.
Charlie's Ghost, you may be right about this. I was theorizing that the phone call took place first for Penny and did not make myself clear... guess I had too much of that Dharma Rum...
Charlotte being Annie...I thought about that, but it doesn't make sense:
1) why would Ben shoot 'his' Annie without a second thought;
2) she's should be around Ben's age, but I think she's younger..
Does anybody have any idea why Jeremy Bentham's obituary mentioned a teenage son?
In the Listening Station They Say That They missed it again. The first Time could have been the swan hatch exploding. That time was the Orchid. They were both purple skys.
sublimesk said:
Does anybody have any idea why Jeremy Bentham's obituary mentioned a teenage son?
Probably was a cover story, or it is possible Locke stole someone's identity.
I think it is part of Ben's master plan to get Sun into a powerful position so she's on Widmore's level and he will take her seriously. Once Sun is buddy Buddy with Chuck Widmore, she can help Ben with whatever he has in mind.
If Charlotte was born on the island, would that make her the only one ever born on the island?
Does Ben even know that Desmond and Frank made it off island?
Why does Ben always seem to have a plan? Time Travel. He's already lived this timeline before, but now Widmore has "changed the rules" so it is now less predictable.
SO MUCH WHISPERRING LAST NIGHT!
The idea that Alpert went back in time to test Locke is pretty interesting...it could make sense!
@boobs....We saw Aaron being born on the island....
When they said they missed it again, the first one they probably missed was when Des didn't push the button and crashed 815.
What about John Locke/Jeremy Bentham? Bentham was an 18th century philosopher who opposed the idea of natural rights but was influenced by philosopher John Locke, who was one of the first to propose such ideas. Does that mean when Locke became Bentham his ideals changed? Another possible point of interest -- Bentham was one of the strongest advocates of utilitarianism (the end justifies the means) of his time.
Someone with a better knowledge of the subject might want to look into this.
Thanks, CG. I was giving myself a headache trying to figure out how the arctic station could be a flash forward.
I think Charollet was, at least, on the island before. When she dropped into the water after hanging from the tree she spluttered to the surface and looked around with, it appeared, an expression of happiness as if she was experiencing something she had missed.
When Sun speaks to Widmore about other people from the island, I think she is referring to Desmond and Lepidas.
When i heard Ben say he couldnt go back to the island, that just reminded me of Widmore.Widmore knew where the island was and the contents (i.e orchard) but couldnt do nothing about it himself.
Widmore was probably the last to move the island and/or even Abbadon as well.
Maybe when Sun says we're not the only one's that left the island, maybe she's referring to Desmond. Maybe Des and Penny are in hiding and Widmore is desperate to find them. Sun may have information on this. I don't know, probably way out there, but just a thought.
The Locke/Alpert test theory is great!
@Erin:
Aaron was born on the island but not conceived there. An important distinction.
I think the "others off the island" could be those who were in the boat with Daniel, on their way to the frieghter. They could've been left stranded.
A theory of my own...
Ben says they "all" have to return to the island, including Bentham, therefore not just the O6.
Does that mean they would have to convince Desmond to return? If so, why would he leave his Penny?
Two possible motivations for Desmond - either Widmore hides her on the island (as someone here to have alluded to already) or Ben convinces alco-Jack that they must find a way to kill Penny and make Desmond think someone from the island is responsible.
I like the second one because of Ben's determination to get revenge for his own daughter's death.
It seems to me Sun would have a grudge against Lepidas because he did not go back for Jin when she told him to. Even though that would have been suicide. She may want revenge on him. But I also think that she is probably working for Ben pretending to have "common interests" with Widmore. She can use the excuse I just gave as a reason for helping him find Desmond and the rest,
Did you guys notice the hieroglyphics on pillars by the donkey wheel? They look like some made up alien runes or something. Suggesting ancients built the wheel.
I don't think the time travel as explained by the show allows people to go back in time like some think Richard has. Richard may be an immortal resident of the island, who, because of the islands properties never ages. The island seems to affect people differently, depending on how it decides to treat them.
yo rayray, i dont think so. i think weve seen the last of faraday and those other scrubs on the little boat. they were out at sea when the island disappeared. i think sun is referring the des and possibly even lapidus (knows truth about 815). maybe culminating in a search for the 06 by not only ben/jack but sun/widmore also.
Branching off what ez_s said, is it possible that Widmore had been to the island and acted as its leader, only to be replaced by Ben in the same way that Locked replaced Ben?
i think Sun's talking about widmore himself... that's the reason he wants to locate the island.
Is it just me or did anyone else, upon seeing Locke in the casket, immediately think that the baton had been passed to Sawyer...the Island clearly is not finished with him after this adept dodging of machine gun fire in New Otherton...
what about this, if locke goes back to the island in the coffin, will he be like Christian Sheperd? Will he be raised from the dead to be creepy in white sneaks? And a disciple of Jacob?
Am I the only one who noticed Locke didn't have a scar in the coffin?
Charlotte's pursuit of trying to find the island she was born on is interesting to me. Most people don't spend their life secretely searching for the place they were born. Made me wonder.... could her MOTHER be Annie, Ben's childhood girlfriend? It has yet to be discovered what happened to her, did she die when he murdered those working for Dharma OR did she and Ben have a relationship which resulted in a child (Charlotte) and if so, why did they leave the island? Remember, time on the island goes slow, off the island it is faster which would explain the small age difference between the two.
Sun and Widmore
Sun tells Widmore they have common interests, then Widmore asks why she would help him. She is walking away and turns to glance back, as she did on the freigther. She does not admit to 'helping' Widmore. Their common interest would be Ben and the island.
Most likely she was visited by Jeremy Bentham as well. Jeremy Bentham would have told her Ben was responsible for the freighter deaths. But yet again I can not figure out why Jeremy would not have told Walt why the 06 were lying.
Does anyone know the language of the crew on Penny's boat when they rescued the O6?
portuguese
Two rabbits, Two Benjamin Linus's, Two Richard Alperts, etc etc. Is John really dead? Is it only a copy of Locke thats dead? I think this makes some sense considering Desmond's Flashes before your eyes time travel allowed his survival of the implosion. I also think fate will designate when, what time, the island moves too. If its three yrs later or not i dont know but that would fit the time line events of Ben, Jack and Locke's meeting. Also if time has moved and island time is the same as three yrs prior how did Locke get off the island in order to warn O6 and then get killed.
I don't remember seeing any theories about this, so I thought I'd ask what you guys think. Do you think it's possible that Jin and others survived the explosion on the freighter? After the explosives detonated, Sun was screaming that he's down there, she knows he's alive, which, for me, echoed of Rose's certainty that Bernard was still alive (albeit more coolly and rationally than Sun's reaction).
Here's why I think it's possible: the "Casimir effect" on the island (which, in part, is part of a theory in which something akin to wormholes are possible), which if magnified, could account the teleportation of the entire island, might not just take the island through the "wormhole." Is it possible that some of the water surrounding the island was moved as well? And, if the freighter was close enough to the island, couldn't Faraday's zodiac, along with the wreckage of the freighter, have been transported also? I think it would be an interesting twist for the writers to have shown us Jin's grave and assume that he is dead, only to have him survive the freighter explosion.
This is my first time posting on this forum, so if anyone has posted this theory already, I apologize.
Remeber in the video John watched while Ben gathered metal material into the pod? On the video, it was said (the pod) worked on the principle of Casimir Effect. This was a short definition I found:
Casimir effect and wormholes
Exotic matter with negative energy density is required to stabilize a wormhole.[15] Morris, Thorne and Yurtsever[16] pointed out that the quantum mechanics of the Casimir effect can be used to produce a locally mass-negative region of space-time, and suggested that negative effect could be used to stabilize a wormhole to allow faster than light travel. This was used in the novel Warp Speed by Travis S. Taylor.
Interesting!