Lost - Kevin Johnson Ratings Woes

something you didn't touch upon which has been brought up repeatedly in past discussion of ratings is that lost is a show watched in a group. this isn't greys where it's just ladies or couples watching it before they go to bed. i and everyone i know watch lost in large groups.

this is a sign that the current 'ratings' system is completely flawed. it has improved with dvr numbers taken into account a week later, but it's still an imperfect system that doesn't accurately reflect the actual population watching a program.

Plus, you have to remember that Meet Kevin Johnson was up against day one of March Madness this week. That has to have had an effect, since many basketball fans probably watched it online the next day in favor of the live games (as I did).

That's an important point KoozyK, especially with the way new media is heading.

Right on Taylor. live sports are a pretty powerful draw.

How about the fact that it was up against the first night of the NCAA tournament? I for one watched the end of the near upset of Duke before I was able to switch over to Lost at about 9:30.

First off, Duke sucks.

Secondly, Everyone I know Tivo's the show and watches it at a time where they have the ability to rewind during a confusing or interesting part and fast forward through the commercials. The ratings system is outdated and arbitrary and the networks know this.

Also, I do not think UB and Grey's will garner the ratings boost many people think. Both of those shows are lowest common denomonator drivin. They are typical, mindless boob-tube rubbish. LOST takes thought and attention. Most people don't watch TV for such active participation.

Being in the media industry, I know how important ratings and ad dollars are. Because of that, I am scared and dissapointed by the continured ratings decline. That beings said though, because it is an intelligent show, I am not surprised at what we're seeing.

I think it's very likely that Lost has been losing certain demographics. During the first season, my father and grandparents enjoyed the show very much. When the hatch was introduced in Season 2, my grandparents lost interest. Now that the show is simply turning into a battle between two hostile groups, my father is losing interest. Don't forget that the show has changed very much from the first season until now, and some people may not like where it's headed.

In fact, although I'm the biggest Lost fan I know, even I'm starting to get dejected. This show spent so many years building up our interest in the main characters, and now the characters are either being killed off, or they are being destroyed, a former shell of themselves.

The Michael story has hit me the hardest. A loving father, trying to make up for his bad ways, becomes a murderer, loses the love of his son, now it seems like he's going to help the Oceanic Six get back to civilization, which we know will make them miserable, and then he will probably commit suicide and end up in the coffin. I don't get it. The problem for me is that he started out as a good guy. I would have rather that they did this with someone who was always bad. For example, Sawyer was always bad, a con artist. He could have redeemed himself here. Instead they turn Michael into a bad guy? A guy who at this point probably gets less sympathy than even Ben? I don't get it.

Koozy and the folks who mentioned March Madness have good points!

So does Marc--the show has changed, and this season is a lot darker than were previous seasons.

My Mom watches the show and she is very frustrated with the FF innovation. So far, she is the only friend of mine who watches who hasn't enjoyed the FF's, but I wonder if perhaps my mom represents a larger fan segment than I previously suspected? According to my Mom, she likes the Island story and really isn't all that interested in what happens to the characters once they leave the Island. (I also think the FF's might confuse her a bit, but don't tell her that I said that! I'll be disinherited!! LOL)

I think the obsession with ratings for the show is really, really sad. It certainly has nothing to do with how good the show is--ever since they announced the endpoint, I think it's been simply awesome, with some of the very best episodes ever. Some people seem to have those dazzling 20 million + numbers from the first season when it was a media phenomenon in their head and want it to be like that again. It can't! The show is way too complicated now for casual viewing and those are the people who drop away.

I download the show as a HD 720 file via BitTorrent while at work on Friday and then watch it Friday night after work so I can get stoned and drink beer while I watch it two or three times while hopping on to DarkUFO and here for screencaps and stuff. I'm totally off the radar as far as The Mouse is concerned.

This show spent so many years building up our interest in the main characters, and now the characters are either being killed off, or they are being destroyed, a former shell of themselves.

Well, there's your problem right there. You became, as Ben would say, "invested" in those characters, which was a bad move IMO. The Island is the main character on the show, not any of the 815 people or The Others, and I've approached the show that way since John saw Cerberus and thought it was beautiful.

When the hatch was introduced in Season 2, my grandparents lost interest. Now that the show is simply turning into a battle between two hostile groups, my father is losing interest. Don't forget that the show has changed very much from the first season until now, and some people may not like where it's headed.

Fair enough, I know some people who simply wanted it to be a fluffy "Oh look at all the improbably pretty people who have crashed on an island but still have perfect hair and makeup as they go through relationships on a pretty island" type thing, but if it had continued like that, *I'd* have checked out long ago. When Boone dropped that flashlight on the Swan hatch cover, I knew the show was going in a different direction and I was glad about that.

The problem for me is that he started out as a good guy.

You mean the guy that willingly gave up his son to his careerist ex-wife because she worked on his guilt that he was a loser and couldn't take care of him?

I would have rather that they did this with someone who was always bad.

How boring! One of the things my dad and I love about the show is that such "good/bad" things are erased in favor of a much more textured take on how people really are, how people react under stressful situations.

Loved Ben's line: "Then consider yourself one of the good guys".

According to my Mom, she likes the Island story and really isn't all that interested in what happens to the characters once they leave the Island.

I can see that, I was kind of bummed with the FF because I wanted Jack to die a horrible, hideous death at the hands of Ben! :-D I actually thought the show was going to end with them getting rescued, but they have other plans.

The fact is the more sci fi he lower ratings - time travel - magnetic fields - genetic manipulation - geeze i love this kinda stuff - but lets face facts in a country where passing standardize is the main goal of the eductional system - the idea of wierd unconvential ideas - plots that go from a to d then back to b take some sorta of thought - and trust me im no genius - i just grew up reading michael moorcock - jack l chalker - robert anton wilson - philip k dick - which has basically twisted my brain enough where nothing on LOST is all that fantastic - BUT THE MINUTE THEY STARTED DEALING WITH TIME TRAVEL IN A SERIOUS WAY - I COULD HERE HAVE THE TV SETS IN AMERICA CLICK TO SOMETHING ELSE - AND THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS !!!!

The FF's have been brilliant.

I always hoped that the show wouldn't end with the rescue. Everybody hugging and crying tears of joy and the helicopters and cruise ships take them off intro the sunset.

BORING.

How typical Hollywood happy ending.

The thing that made this show so great from day one is the complexity of it's characters. They flaws and likable qualities are real. Hollywood endings by design are NOT real. I for one am VERY thankful that the FFs have opened up an entire new area to this mystery. It's depressing to see our "heroes" in such pain post-island, but I think in the end, things will work out. As in life...they always do.

Time Lord is right, once they started in with the Casimir Effect and bunnies being in two places and Charlie appearing before Hugo and saying "I *am* dead, but I'm still here" I'm sure some people went "Oooookay" and jumped ship, as it were, probably even earlier with stuff like Desmond's flashback in season 3 with the awesome Ms. Hawking. Xtremelt8, your ending is what I expected too--the LOST producers sure aren't afraid to lay on the cheesiness.

Lost is going to change every season. Heck, the story moves with every episode. Some people like those changes, and others do not. Season 1 had its utopian moments, and it also had its VERY dark moments - not only the flashbacks, but the way the characters treated each other. Regardless, people will remember Season 1 as a very touching season. During that time, people wanted to know what was in the hatch, and they were MAD that they didn't find out.

Season 2, people found out about the hatch alright. The frustration lies in the Others getting their way, not finding enough about the Others, the story moving slow, etc.

Season 3 contradicted peoples frustrations. They found about the Others alright - so much so, people complained there was too much of Them and not enough beach stories.

Season 4, I'm not too well aware enough of to voice people frustrations. But I will say this, I do have frustrations, but yet I'm still loyal to the show. I wanted this show to be about redemption, instead some of the O6 lose their redemption when they get off the Island. Will it stay like this?

At the same time, I know that this is the beauty of writing. If the story's outcome is unpredictable, and at the same time is within the set rules of the storytelling, then the saga was written well. I want the characters to have good endings, I want them to complete their mission, I want their dark parts changed into good - but I don't know the outcome.

When I watched season 3, I missed season 2 and missed the good parts. Now I watch season 4, and miss season 3. For that reason, I know when I will enjoy season 4.

I have LOST parties every week at my house where a group of 8-13 people order pizza, drink beers , hit the bong and have our minds blown by LOST. Its so much better because then we can about it afterwards.

First of all, the ratings system IS old and outdated. There are so many other ways the show can be viewed (Tivo, abc.com, and iTunes to name but a few). I, for one, get very frustrated watching the show live, because of the incessant commercial breaks which can really break up the pacing of the show. As such, I usually watch it the night of or the next day after recording it. I think this is the emerging trend, and exactly what the writer's were striking over in the first place. People are finding new ways to watch these shows, especially the serialized dramas, where watching several episodes in a row, commercial free, really adds to the story.

Secondly, no, the show is not in danger of being canceled. I would love the show to be the ratings darling it was back in Seasons 1 and 2. If nothing else, it would validate my obsession with the show :-). On the other hand, this is a show that requires commitment from the audience. I know a few people who realized by the end of season 1 or the middle of season 2, that they simply couldn't keep up with the show. It's a story that isn't going to be told in 1 or 2 seasons. It's not like 24 or CSI, where you can tune in and out, or watch one season without feeling like you are missing anything by not seeing every episode. Each episode is contiguous, even between seasons. Some complain that the story is moving too slowly because of that. The story DOES move slowly, almost frustratingly so, but I believe the writers know that the story they want to tell is epic in the extreme, and it would be a disservice to those that are truly devoted to edit out any of the details.

Thirdly, we've reached a point in the story telling that amounts to basically the 3rd act or so. Traditionally, this is the part of the story where everything goes to hell, both narratively and for the characters. Season 3's finale really solidified that. Things will happen that really change the story in profound ways. This may turn off some viewers who thought that Season 1 would wrap up a lot of the redemption stories (I was one of them).

Also, telling the story at this point is very difficult, because the events are difficult to bookend. Think "The Empire Strikes Back", which has no beginning and no ending; it's simply a continuation (but WHAT a continuation!) It is unlikely that anyone that has never seen the show is going to start watching now. You wouldn't pick up the 4th or 5th Harry Potter book and expect to know what's going on. Those recap episodes that they keep showing or, in my opinion, a waste of time. It doesn't explain anything new to existing viewers, and can't possibly explain all the details of the show in a finite period of time to new viewers.

Lastly, with the end date in sight, I think there are plenty of people who have decided they can wait it out. That's usually how I feel when there's a new season of 24. I can either kill myself trying to watch it every week, and go crazy with anticipation, or I can avoid spoilers from Jan-May and then watch the whole thing at once. I'm willing to bet there are people who are just waiting until the whole show is over, and then they can watch the entire story at their leisure.

But this is all just speculation, so who knows?

I was going to leave my thoughts but henry holland beat me to it. you hit the nail on the head brother. i agree completely...except maybe the jack thing.

@Marc Too bad. You don't the have the stomach to handle a story that is not warm and cushy then it's your problem not Lost's. If you think Lost is not good right now when it has produced a string of 8 most consistent episodes in show's history then you should not wast your time. Lost is a dangerous show, characters are going to die that is a fact, if you want something where everything is happy I suggest you watch Grey's anatomy or desperate housewives or something like that. When watching Lost it is a given that any character can die at any moment, if you have a problem with that you cannot blame the show.

And I'm sorry Doc but you need to cut down the paranoia. Lost is not anyway near the point of cancellation. I mean ABC just renewed According to Jim which gets less then 5 million viewers an 1-ish in the demo.

I'm going to tell you why the ratings declined steadily in each of the past two seasons. Many wil think im crazy but hear me out. The show is predictable. I know everyone wll say what the hell are you talking about? but keep reading. The show was peaked in seasons 1 & 2. Look at season 1. You never had any idea what was going to happen. Whether it was mysterious smoke monster, cursed numbers, a crazy french lady, the mysterious others, problems with Claire's pregnancy, s hatch in the ground, or random mirages of horses and such appearing,you did not know what was coming. In the first half of season 3, when the ratings declined sharply, the show changed. You knew what was going to happen. Sawyer and Kate would be in a cage, and Pickett would beat Sawyer and Kate would cry. Jack would yell how he is going to do the surgery and Juliet and Ben would attempt to convince him to do it. Now season 4. Many are outraged now that i would even consider the notion that the show is predictable. Sayid working for Ben, or Kate raising Claire what about those? THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COUPLE TWIST AND UNPREDICTABILITY. For anyone who missed it I'll re iterate that, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COUPLE TWIST AND UNPREDICTABILITY. For all this first half of the season everyone knew Jack would demand to know what is going on, the freighter people would respond oddly, Locke would maintain they are bad, and there would be a ridiculous twist at the end. Look at the big picture this season. What has happened? 4 Freighter people arrived. Did that need 8 episodes of explaining? I am praying Lost finishes as it did last season. Now people will accuse me of just wanting answers. This is not true THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WANTING THE SHOW TO EXPLORE DIFFERENT ASPECTS AND JUST WANTING ANSWERS. I feel cheated this season after the end of last. After the Man Behind the Curtain i couldn't wait to EXPLORE, NOT GET ANSWERS to more mysteries of the island and its past. This season has thrown that out the window. What happened to the hilarious adventures of Sawyer, Hurley, and Jin? Flushed down the toilet. The promlem is the writers revolve each season around just one theme. What happened to Jacob? smokey? Sawyer and Hurley? Locke's adventures? I promise you that if/and when the writers explore each of the various aspects of the show more often, the ratings will sky rocket.

@BlackRock,

Hey, be nice. Don't be a fan of Lost blindly to the point you bash others for stating their opinion with their problems of the show. Fans even have the right to question aspects of the show. To say, "That's your problem," when they're merely stating an opinion, is misplaced.

@Matt,

Thanks for your opinion. What I don't understand is, how is there no exploring going on? The Freighties are ambiguous - we don't know what they're up to. We don't know why both opposing sides say the other faked the plane crash. In fact, the question is, was it really faked? Was it the time loop theory, or was it faked? We don't know why Jack becomes Junkie Jack - wouldn't you say they're exploring that?

Thanks again,
sk8rpro

Many people think that the redemption them of the show ha stopped in season 1 and 2 and that is why they tuned out. People see how the character's lives suck after the island and think, so what was the point of redeming themselves and becoming good people if they will just go back to being killers (sayid) and drunks (Jack). But as everything else i think there is a reason for this. I belive that they island represtns redemption and one theme of this show is just how screwed up the world is today. It is showing that people may be better off living away froms society and live away form the horrors of the world. And when our beloveed charachters evebtually return to the island they will relize that it wasnt just by chance they crashed there. Every character is in one way not just lost physically but also spritually or emotionally and taking a break from the world helped them see who they really were and redeem themselves. So when

Face it, Micheal is basically a DOWNER.

sk8rpro Yes i agree they are exploring the freighter and its crew, but why can't we explore other stuff as well. I just wish we could see more Jacob and Dharma and Sawyer and stuff. The show had more variety in season 1/2/second half of 3

Honestly, I think there was good reason to talk about this and even beat it to death last year when we didn't understand the attrition and that many were touting Heroes over LOST (funny how that worked out). This year seeing LOST return to form and be very triumphant in that regard I believe has many going "So WHat" ...meaning we don't need to discuss it that much anymore. LOST is in TOP form and hanestly with the strike and all that is happened, LOST is here to stay and ride out to the end.

My theory is that LOST will NEVER gain more viewers than the Core it has now. EVER. I knew MANY who tried to either get back in or just watch it to see what the fuss was/is. All the new folks were absolutly LOST. I had people come up to me and ask "I thought they were on an Island" or "That's a really wired show" etc. I also know MANY who will not watch and will wait for the DVD. LOST takes committment.

Maybe it's different in the States, but what's so wrong with the 10pm slot? I'm betting a lot of people get by with 1 less hour of sleep.